Live Sports Production with HPX

Echolab makes pretty good stuff for a reasonable price. I have punched on one of their SD-SDI switchers. It was the classic 7 panel. 2ME switcher.

I will probably go the echolab route.

I thought about going with a van, but I think a trailer would suit us better. With the local sports getting as big as they are we will need the space of the trailer.
 
Yeah, we work on an Echolab at one of our facilities too, I'm just wondering if they make an HD-SDI version that is cost effective. There Overture 1 MD looks like it would fit the bill for us, but it would be nice to know how much it costs.
 
I talked to a guy in sales there and he quoted me around $16k. It has been a while so I am not sure, but I think that was for HD. I may be wrong though.
 
What's wrong with the panasonic switcher? it 8 HD/SDI in's. Are you sure that control panel works with the HPX's. Also any body have any Ideas on ISO recording. I was thinking of just putting cards in the cameras.
 
The telemetrics coax version doesn't do HD/SDI right?
What If I got an IDX camwave for one of the cams. Operator would have to control the camera, but you wouldn't give the wireless cam to an inexpreienced op would you.

Anybody know if the panasonic switcher has an SD out. We would probably record SD for now anyway.
 
Andrew McMillan said:
The telemetrics coax version doesn't do HD/SDI right?
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No, but they sell a HD-SDI Version for $10k

Andrew McMillan said:
What If I got an IDX camwave for one of the cams. Operator would have to control the camera, but you wouldn't give the wireless cam to an inexpreienced op would you.
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Funny you should say that, "inexperienced" is sometimes all you get depending on where you go and who is available. Only issue with the camwave is that I hear t doesn't do HD, but I could be wrong. The other problem you have with wireless is the delay. Most units have up to 1/2 second delay, which can be disasterous for a mix if you're trying to sync things up. If they were all delayed the same, it would be fine of you are simply recording, but if you are also going out to projectors live or something, 1/2 second is huge. Try bumping a video 15 frames (@ 30fps) in your NLE and see what happens. You become limited to what you can do. If your hard cam and wireless cams are recording the same thing and there is a 15 frame delay, you're going to notice it.

And if you don't mind the operator controlling shading and things like that, then all you would have to do is run a single HD-SDI cable for video, but you run into things like "no tally" and "intercom", which in a live environment is essential.

Andrew McMillan said:
Anybody know if the panasonic switcher has an SD out. We would probably record SD for now anyway.
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It does if you're running everything in SD. I don't know if it will down-convert HD or not, but you can always get an external converter / scaler for that.


I'm not opposed to the Panasonic Switcher (400, not the 300). It has some nice features, such as the multiviewer and pleanty of ins and outs, but it doesn't come pre-configured with 8 HD-SDI inputs, only 4. By the time you start adding all of the add on boards, you're starting to get up into a higher price and the "better"switchers aren't that far away. Nothing against Panasonic's mixers, but the ones I have used in the past feel like toys, from the buttons to the shell to everything. They just don't seem as robust as a more broadcast type switcher.
 
Going back and looking at IDX's website, they say this in a pree relese:

"Lightweight on-camera unit transmits uncompressed HD-SDI or
SD-SDI output wireless up to 150 feet with virtually no latency".

Pretty impressive, and you could run a wireless headset system, but still no tally. Does anyone know how much these are supposed to cost?
 
Just got off the phone with IDX

Retail Price is $5995 for the Cam-Wave HD System, expected ship date is in July sometime. 150 feet is the expected operating distance, but right now they are only really solid up to about 100 feet, which would be fine for close proximity and indoor use, but I suppose you could have the receiver closer to the transmitter and run a cable if you need to go further. The systems have V-lock mounts so you can mount it directly to your battery system and hook batteries to it.

Pretty cool. The Telemetrics systems are nice though because you can incorporate all of the things you need into that single cable, like your signal, tally, intercom, have the ability to remotely shade the cameras, etc. In a controlled environment (ie. indoors, at an event with constant lighting, etc), you would be ok, but constantly relying on your operators to shade can become a real pain.
 
Camwave Is supossed to be around 6k. I was just thinking out loud for one camera to run around and get extra shots like the outside of the venue and what not.

I am not sure that that controler will work with the HPX's and I am don't want to pay 4k for the controller. Any way to use one controller will multiple cameras. Like having hooked up into a custom built router that selectes the camera you want to adjust.

I still think if your on a budget the panas are the way to go. the multiviewer alone saves a ton of cash on monitors. I couldn't be more than 16k for an 8 HD/SDI configuartion right?
 
That controller is the controller that is under the HPX accessories. Yes it will work.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...roupId=34401&surfModel=AG-HPX500&displayTab=S

You would probably pay out the ass to get a custom built router to route the multipin cable from the different cameras to the controller and I don't know if that would even work. The cameras may jump back to previous settings when they loose connection with the controller. Which would happen every time you switched cameras.

It would be nice though if you could shade off of one controller like some of the newer Triax systems are doing, but you could mount these in a desk and run them like the Sony remote controls.
 
What if it was a mix of telemetrix and tvpro gear. Say some of the cameras that are closer to the van have cheaper mulitcore. And the farther ones have telemetrixs.

but honestly at these prices I don't mind have custom cables made. with HD/SDI, Intercom/tally, shading and maybe power.

I would love coax or triax, but I would also love to have each cam under 20k.
 
For me it would be one system or the other.

I have had sync problems on a shoot where we used Camplex on three of the cameras and ran a video and gen lock cable to the other camera. You could probably iron out the wrinkles in it if you had the time to set it up right, but that is just one more thing that could go wrong at a gig. I myself don't want to screw something up that people are paying for.

Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. The multicore can't run long cable lengths and isn't repairable in the field. The fiber can run super long cable lengths, but isn't repairable in the field. The fiber would be cheaper to carry backup cables though. If you went the Triax route it can handle long cable lengths and can be fixed in the field, but I don't think it will do HD.

You pretty much have to decide what is best for you. I would spend the extra few thousand and get the most flexible system that I could get.
 
Kit Hannah said:
No, that isn't the one. I was looking at this one:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...mId=95974&catGroupId=14573&surfModel=AW-CB400

They sell it for $1399 at B&H, but now looking at it more closely it may only work for the convertible cameras.

That sucks.
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It doesn't look like it would work, but I am not 100% on that.

Maybe Jan could jump in and give us the needed info.

If it does work that is a steal compared to the other one.

I wouldn't need the scene file access and some of the other features that the RC10G has.
 
Andrew McMillan said:
What if it was a mix of telemetrix and tvpro gear. Say some of the cameras that are closer to the van have cheaper mulitcore. And the farther ones have telemetrixs.

but honestly at these prices I don't mind have custom cables made. with HD/SDI, Intercom/tally, shading and maybe power.

I would love coax or triax, but I would also love to have each cam under 20k.
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Let me expand on my conversation with the telemetrics sales person. They do carry power. Een the coas system for $6k powers your camera over the coax. Pretty crazy.

There's no reason you can't have each system for under $20k, inclding the camera.

For example, even if you went to B&H and purchased their camera package for $9995 + $2k mail in rebate, That's $7995. Add the coax telemetrics system and you're at $14k, + a lens, which I would go with a nice SD lens, say for $2k-$3k, you stil have more than enough money left over for cable, tripod (well, a Manfrotto tripod, which is fine for us), an on camera monitor and lens controls. Add another $4k for the HD version. Pretty cost effective if you ask me.
 
ef03 said:
It doesn't look like it would work, but I am not 100% on that.

Maybe Jan could jump in and give us the needed info.

If it does work that is a steal compared to the other one.

I wouldn't need the scene file access and some of the other features that the RC10G has.
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Yeah, that's what I am wondering.

I wonder if a generic one would work, or something from Ikegami or Sony. All I really want to do is shade and white balance really. Not much more needed for us. You can find used ones for cheap, but I'm just not sure if those will interface with the camera.
 
Kit Hannah said:
Let me expand on my conversation with the telemetrics sales person. They do carry power. Een the coas system for $6k powers your camera over the coax. Pretty crazy.

There's no reason you can't have each system for under $20k, inclding the camera.

For example, even if you went to B&H and purchased their camera package for $9995 + $2k mail in rebate, That's $7995. Add the coax telemetrics system and you're at $14k, + a lens, which I would go with a nice SD lens, say for $2k-$3k, you stil have more than enough money left over for cable, tripod (well, a Manfrotto tripod, which is fine for us), an on camera monitor and lens controls. Add another $4k for the HD version. Pretty cost effective if you ask me.
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So the fiber HD system does carry power over coax or not?

I know that the camplex HD system carries power, tally, intercom, return video, and remote control over coax and the HD video goes over fiber. Essentially their HD system works exactly like the SD system they just added a fiber line for the bandwith needed to carry the uncompressed HD.

Hopefully the telemtrics system carries power in a similar fashion or it would be sort of a let down.
 
ef03 said:
If you went the Triax route it can handle long cable lengths and can be fixed in the field, but I don't think it will do HD.
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Yes- Triax will do HD. I asked Telemetrics about that and they said they are working on HD for the triax, but couldn't comment any further. It would not be HD-SDI, but probably compnent based.

ef03 said:
You pretty much have to decide what is best for you. I would spend the extra few thousand and get the most flexible system that I could get.
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Agreed. If the system is not designed well or is not efficient, the money you save there you will lose later from labor costs and/or something going wrong.
 
ef03 said:
So the fiber HD system does carry power over coax or not?

I know that the camplex HD system carries power, tally, intercom, return video, and remote control over coax and the HD video goes over fiber. Essentially their HD system works exactly like the SD system they just added a fiber line for the bandwith needed to carry the uncompressed HD.

Hopefully the telemtrics system carries power in a similar fashion or it would be sort of a let down.
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Yep, all of their systems carry power, even the HD fiber system. It's just a lot cheaper than the camplex.
 
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