Using Nikon DSLR Lenses

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Daniel.Valle

Member
Hi guys, I'm new to the board, but I've been lurking for 3 months or so. I'm glad to be a part of the forums now since it is positively awesome. :)

Well, my question is pretty straightfoward. I own a Nikon DSLR (d80) and two lenses, the "cheap" one that comes with the kit and another "cheap" tele, which actually works pretty good.

Thing is, none of them have shutter control on their bodies; exposure is controlled in camera and such, as you guys probably know.

So, my question is: will I be able to use these lenses with a DOF Adapter?

If not, how do I know which Nikon lenses have shutter control in-body? Is there something in their names that indicates this?

Thanks in advance.
 
I believe the correct term you are looking for is aperture

there will be a ring on the lens that has markings on it. ex. 1.8 2.0 2.4 2.8 etc. the smaller the number the better

I am going to assume you can use those lenses on your adapter, provided you have a nikon mount. You just wont be able to control the aperture on the lens.
 
Hi:

You need to buy either D series Nikons (not really that great in most cases) or the older AI-S and AI lenses with the manual aperture controls. Besides only being able to be used wide open, your lenses are too slow for an adapter anyway. Buy the fastest lenses you can afford, usually f 1.4 primes and f 2.8 zooms. The Nikon 80-200 2.8 or 70-200 2.8 are superb and razor sharp but not cheap. Used AI/AI-S Nikons in 50 and 85 mm 1.4 and 1.8 can be found for usually under a couple of hundred bucks. Fast wide angles in Nikon are rare and expensive. I own the 28mm 2.8 D series and it sucks with adapters, it's soft and not really very fast for a short focal length. The 20mm 2.0 is great but will cost you several hundred dollars if you can find one.

Assuming you have an HVX? The HVX is a relatively slow camera to begin with. The adapters will all lose you another .5 to 2.0 stops of speed so buying the fastest lenses possible is important. Your lenses you have now are probably, what 3.5-5.6 or a 4.0-5.6 speed? And you cannot use DX lenses either, their field of view is too narrow for a 35mm adapter, if your camera is newer, you have at least one DX lens. Very slow for an adapter unless you only plan to shoot under bright daylight and most vibrating adapters show grain in the GG when you stop down to a 4.0 or 5.6 anyway. If you buy a rotating adapter, you can close down more without GG issues.

Good luck,

Dan
 
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The short answer is "no" you can't. Someone should invent an adaptor for DSLR series Nikon lenses to control aperture. That would sell!

But even then, the above posts are right - you need a fast lens man or its a waste of time with a cinema adaptor. Even the ones that don't loose a lot of light, like the Brevis.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

Actually, I don't own an HVX yet, I'm waiting for the HPX170, as I need a lighter camera to carry on my packback that doesn't attract too much atention. The LCD flip, less noise and improved sensitivity also interest me a great deal.

I do have a "fully manual" Nikon lens 35-70mm, and its maximum aperture is 3.5.

Wouldn't that be enough? I mean, for outdoor scenes or well-lit interiors?

I do plan on getting some better used Nikon lenses in the long run (to use in my still camera as well) but wouldn't this lens do the job I described above in the meantime?

Also, another question, slightly off-topic. How shallow DOF I can get with the stock lens on the HVX (or the HPX, in the future) by leaving a wide aperture and throwing the ND filters? Sure, I realise this would probably only work in the daytime, but how does it look?
 
Daniel.Valle said:
I do have a "fully manual" Nikon lens 35-70mm, and its maximum aperture is 3.5.

Wouldn't that be enough? I mean, for outdoor scenes or well-lit interiors?
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It would be fine at 3.5 for exteriors, but for interiors, you would probably have to shoot at 1/24th of a second shutter speed if you were to get an usable level. I believe that lens does not hold a constant 3.5 anyway, as soon as you zoom, you will get a maximum aperture of 5.6, which is too stopped down, will show grain on the GG.

If you can cough up $5k for an HPX-170, I bet you can cough up a few hundred dollars to get the right lenses like some fast primes. The Nikon 50mm 1.4 is a great 35mm adapter lens and can be bought used for between 100 and 200 dollars. Same with the 85mm 1.8.


Daniel.Valle said:
Also, another question, slightly off-topic. How shallow DOF I can get with the stock lens on the HVX (or the HPX, in the future) by leaving a wide aperture and throwing the ND filters? Sure, I realise this would probably only work in the daytime, but how does it look?
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Depth of field is so-so, not nearly as shallow as you can obtain with adapter and 35mm lenses. Also, with stock lens zoomed all of the way in, your field of view is usually not great. If this were a viable option, would all of us be spending thousands of extra dollars for adapters and lenses? ;-) In most situations, it's not a viable option. Also, HVX-200 or HPX-170, in bright outdoor light, with 1/64th ND is still usually getting a 4.0 or 5.6 or so, it's not always open all of the way. There is no free lunch. If you want "the look", you have to buy the right tools to obtain "the look".

Dan
 
I see. So what you mean is that zoom lenses are pretty much a no-go for use with adapters.

But, once I have the adapter on do I just leave the stock lens on the camera at its widest setting, so it can be as luminous as possible?

What bothers me though is that most of the "interesting" Nikon lenses I've been looking into on BH don't have in-body aperture control, what to do then? Get old lenses?

PS: hopefully the extra sensitivity on the HPX-170 will help us out in getting better results from regular, not-so-bright lenses - we're not doing Barry Lyndon here. =P
 
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Daniel.Valle said:
I see. So what you mean is that zoom lenses are pretty much a no-go for use with adapters.
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Not true at all. CHEAP zoom lenses are a no go for adapters because they are too slow. If you can shell out $1,500.00 for a Nikon 70-200 2.8, you will be very happy with the results, it's the sharpest zoom Nikon has ever made. But a cheap kit zoom? Too slow man!

Daniel.Valle said:
But, once I have the adapter on do I just leave the stock lens on the camera at its widest setting, so it can be as luminous as possible?
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That's one way of putting it. But why would you be so intent on using a super low cost slow lens when you can buy a super high quality very fast lens for as little as $150.00? Like the Nikon 50mm 1.4 AI-S?

Daniel.Valle said:
PS: hopefully the extra sensitivity on the HPX-170 will help us out in getting better results from regular, not-so-bright lenses - we're not doing Barry Lyndon here. =P
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Considering Barry Lyndon was shot with special super super fast lenses (I think that they were 1.0 lenses or at the slowest, 1.2, under genuine candlelight with high speed stocks), I would think not. Even a 35mm adapter with a 50mm 1.2 lens would be significantly slower than the equipment used to shoot Barry Lyndon.

We are only talking speed as well, don't forget about quality. From a cinematic standpoint, ALL of the lenses we are dicsussing are crap. I own the Nikon 28mm 2.8D, the 50mm 1.4 AI-S, the 85mm 1.8 AI-S and the 105mm 2.8 D Micro Nikkor for my Letus package (I also own several others, but mostly DX lenses for my D80, which are useless for the Letus). All of the lenses are razor sharp (except the 28mm) and look good but the 105mm 2.8 Micro looks superb and much better than the others. It was only a $700.00 lens new but it is widely considered as sharp as many of Nikon's $4,000.00 and up lenses. OTOH, my 28mm 2.8D is a piece of junk. It is soft, has lots of CA and is just not a good lens. As your kits lenses are. They are probably adequate with the D-80 but in comparison to the better Nikons, they are junk. Just as the all of the Nikons are junk in comparsion to a Panavision Primo or a Zeiss SuperSpeed. It's all relative.

You need to step back and analyze your motives. Why on earth would you be intent on using a $150.00 lens on a $5,000.00 camcorder with a $1,200.00 adapter? Makes no aesthetic or financial sense at all. My advice is to bite the bullet and buy some better lenses. At some point, I will be ditiching my Nikons for some used PL mount cine lenses. Honestly, the 35mm still lenses breathe some much on focus that they look awful to try do a nice rack focus. Cine lenses breathe less or don't breathe at all. Horses for courses.

Dan
 
I totally agree with you that using cheap lenses doesn't make much sense; I do intend on getting them, but not the right after I buy the HPX-170.

What I'm trying to see here is if I can get acceptable, solid results from these lenses, results that, say, an average viewer would be content with.

I was just about to buy the HVX when I heard NAB was coming so I decided to wait; now waiting for the 170 is killing me because there's a lot of stuff I wish I could be doing today. I sure hope it comes out in September like Barry said, or else I'm screwed.

For me this makes sense because I live in Brazil, and here cameras cost 2-4x more (depends) than they do in the US, so for me this is a big purchase, and the HVX is clearly not for me (I'll never use tape; I intend on transferring stuff to film, so I need cleaner images; I need a lighter camera)

So the whole idea is if I can get good results with what I got until I gradually buy all this stuff.

And besides, my intention of using the adapter is for narrative work, for documentary/corporate/institutional/event stuff it isn't a major requirement.

Well, maybe for documentary work, but according to what I read using them in a run and gun scenario isn't too good. So until then I'll probably just try to "fake" shallow DOF with in-camera aperture and ND control. =/
 
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Hi Daniel:

I like your plan but you should also know that Panasonic has a history of delivering product late. The HVX was slated to deliver in December of 2005 but most people couldn't get their hands on one until Summer of 2006.

Same thing with the 16GB P2 cards, they delivered months late.

I think you need a plan B on if the HPX is not available when you need it. What is your plan B? Buy an HVX-200a instead? Buy an EX-1 instead?

IMHO, you will not be satisfied with the picture quality of the HPX, a 35mm adapter and cheap lenses, you would be better off shooting without an adapter and waiting to save for some good glass or better yet, buy the 35mm adapter and just rent good glass. 35mm lenses rent pretty cheaply and good glass makes all of the difference in the world.

Good luck but don't hold your breath for being able to purchase an HPX in September. December/January of 2009 are better bets unless Panasonic has turned a new leaf over.

Best,

Dan
 
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I've never had an issue with using HVX in a documentary style. Its lighter than a shoulder mount and still records HD. What more do you want?

As for the DOF, keep in mind that you'll never get the same kind of picture out of a bare HVX lens even with aperture and ND control. Try getting 35mm type DOF on a wide angle shot with the bare lens, ND and wide open.
 
Yeah, renting lenses would probably be an option for narrative work, for the rest I'd go with the stock lenses.

Back to the camera, my plan B to that was the Canon's HV20. Sounds absurd, I know, but there is a point to it.

It shoots nice pictures with very little control as we all know, but I could use it for a few projects I have in mind in the near future, mainly docs and such. A few months later I'd get a "real" camera, which would be the 170. Then I'd keep the HV20 as a "holiday camera", which is what it is, essentially.

Thing is, the whole rolling shutter and pulldown issues don't make it too interesting for me, specially the pulldown ones, so I'm really at a crossroads.

Does it make sense for the 170 be that late considering it really isn't "new" technology or major step ahead like the HVX was to the DVX? It's more like an update of the HVX without tape, and Panasonic needs to compete with the EX1, don't they? Besides, I assume most of the innards of the 170 will be identical to the HVX.

Perhaps Barry knows something about this, since I heard a post of his saying rumors pointed to Fall/September.

It's terrible, but considering how much money any of these cameras will cost me I need to get something that's (I hate the term) "future proof" (by future proof I mean 5 years or so). Besides, the new features of the 170 are sorely missed on the HVX.

I'm still praying for some kind of release date confirmation from Panasonic. =(
 
Even Red company has shown that no single camera can be "future" proof. There simply MUST be an obsolete model within a certain amount of time and depending on what time frame you are comfortable with can determine a lot of things regarding your purchase. IMO if you do film work then buy a film camera. If you are looking for a hobby cam for shooting then wait if you don't have anything significant to shoot now or just downsize and get an HV20 for now and resell later.

If everyone waited for the next big thing we would never own a single piece of equipment. Heck, I'm purchasing another HVX in next week even though the 200A and 170 news has released due to pricing and availability.
 
Daniel.Valle said:
Does it make sense for the 170 be that late considering it really isn't "new" technology or major step ahead like the HVX was to the DVX?
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Was the 16GB P2 card new technology over the 8GB? It released very late. I will be AMAZED if you can actually buy an HPX-170 in September of this year, it would be unprecedented.

Daniel.Valle said:
Perhaps Barry knows something about this, since I heard a post of his saying rumors pointed to Fall/September.
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If he does, chances are he would be under NDA but I don't think he knows. Jan says she is receiving models for testing and final check out in June, and that the new ones "should be" available in September. To me, that leaves a big opportunity for Panasonic to ship them and actually have them at dealers possibly by the holiday season. Possibly.

As I stated, I would not hold your breath and I would definitely not wait on shooting anything for this camera. If you are a pro, you can buy any camera and two or three projects will pay it off. So what's the difference? I would order an HVX-200A today, shoot with it until the HPX-170 is available, then dump the 200A and get the 170.

If you are not a pro, why are you buying $5,000.00 camcorders anyway? If you are not a pro and are buying $5,000.00 cameras, then you are rich enough to just buy whatever, use it and dump it. But to me, $5,000.00 is ridiculous for a hobbiest to spend when there are great cheap cameras like the HV-20 as you point out.

So it's pretty cut and dried. If you are a working pro and make money, buy a 200A today and start making money. If you are a hobbiest, unless you are rich, buy an HV-20. You shouldn't buy a $5,000.00 camcorder as a hobbiest unless you are wealthy and can afford it. A $5,000.00 camcorder is a stupid purchase for a person who is of average means and doesn't make money with it. I am the perfect example, if I didn't make money with this business, I would own an HV-20. Killer camera for a hobbiest.


Daniel.Valle said:
It's terrible, but considering how much money any of these cameras will cost me I need to get something that's (I hate the term) "future proof" (by future proof I mean 5 years or so). Besides, the new features of the 170 are sorely missed on the HVX.

I'm still praying for some kind of release date confirmation from Panasonic. =(
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Future proof? That's hilarious. You mean like the Red One was future proof, even though Red outdated it six months after is started shipping? Camcorders are about as future proof as computers, they are outdated almost the day they are released. That's the way it is and will be for the foreseeable future.

Imagine you tapped out your retirement fund and your kids college fund and bought a Red One because it will be "future proof" according to Red. The you go to NAB and see that your new Red One just became obsolete and to upgrade to the new one, you need to cough up another $20k? I feel so sorry for all of the poor people who bought a Red One. Great camera but they were mis-led in a way. Yes, Red is generously offering full value trade up, which is nice but what if you are tapped out and have not even come close to paying off your Red One? Rental customers and producers are such lemmings, believe me, when the new Red 5k camera hits the market, the Red One will become "camera non-grata". It will still be an amazing tool but higher end clients want the newest and best. Same with Sony F23 owners. I would be bummed owning an F23 when the F35 is out. Future proof doesn't exist. If you take care of it, an HPX-170 will be good to go for a long time, heck I have had my DVX for more than five years and it is still making me money, but as far as any camcorder being desirable and what clients want when it is five years old, good luck.

Best,

Dan
 
Camera is the last thing in your arsenal that is going to be future proof. Every April, a bunch of very smart people congregate in Vegas to make your camera absolete.

Your lenses, mic, mixer, recorder, lights, dolly, crane have a longer and better shelf life than your camera.

You also need to give a few months for 35mm adapter makers to cater to a new cam. Every camera is unique on its lens element. Generic one size fits all 35mm adapter just do not exists.
So, probably by feb 2009, one would be able to get a fully working hpx170 + 35mm adapter setup.

Oh, before you ask, there is no perfect camera. If there is, everybody already owned two of them yesterday.
 
I'm not a hobbyist, I am a pro, but I haven't made any money yet off it, I'm starting out.

I have made two short films (one of which won awards and earned me a scholarship) but I intend on starting my own small production company this year, mainly making event/institutional/advertising stuff to earn some money to support me and buy equipment while I prepare my documentary/fiction stuff.

When I said "future proof" I didn't mean what you guys interpreted; I didn't mean "the last camera I'll ever get"; I mean something that will last me 5 years or so while still being fairly "modern", like the DVX was, for instance.

I am sort of leaning on buying the HVX, shooting a few of projects, then selling it for the 170 early next year.
 
Daniel, the adapter you purchase will affect what lenses you can use. Light efficiency and performance with slower lenses differ greatly between manufacturers. Aram Bauman (Beat Takeshi) has posted gorgeous footage using a Sears brand zoom lens that I think someone gave him for free. We just tested a series of 50mm lenses and found that the cheap Nikon f1.8 50mm had less barrel distortion and sharpness on par with the more expensive f1.4 versions from Nikkor, Minolta and Canon, when tested on our adapter.

The Nikon 70-200 f2.8 D ($800) and the 17-35 f2.8 D ($1500) are the two lenses that came up in my research as top pics in a number of categories:

1. They can be purchased new.
2. They have manual focus and aperture rings.
3. They have sharpness as good as and likely better than many primes in their price range.
4. At f2.8 they have low edge fall-off and great performance on our adapter.

On the downside, focus ring throw is short, and they breath a fair bit. In my opinion, the only alternative if these points are critical, are cine lenses. Many of our users just pick up our PL mount and rent a set of cine lenses when required.

The stillmotion.ca crew uses our adapter with a very nice set of EOS lenses that do not have aperture control on the lens. These professional lenses are known for their sharpness when used wide open, and that's exactly how they use them with great results. Check this Sabotage mock video done with two EOS lenses, a 100mm macro and 50mm f1.4, both wide open. What I'm saying here is that you can always test your lenses if you already own them and they may just do the job for you :-)
 
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zergtherobot said:
actually it was .7 for the lens used to shoot Barry Lyndon. It was made by NASA.
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That's too weird, today I was reading a great story about Jean-Yves Escoffier in a book called "New Cinematographers" and they mentioned the lenses that were used for Barry Lyndon because Escoffier tried to get his hands on them for a film he was shooting, I think it was "Gummo" Yes, the quote was "50mm barrel .07". They were custom made and Kubrick had the connection.

I bet that lens is HUGE and weigh as much as a car.

Dan
 
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