AG-HPX170 - Is It Real

Panasonic is going to build it´s 1/3" line smaller and lighter. They follow the run&gun philosohpy of small camcorders. So there will be a big gap between the HPX170 and the HPX500. One day they will fill it. But not with 1/2" sensors. It will have 2/3". Wait and see or buy and shoot.
 
Why wouldn't a DVX owner just buy an HVX? How many low end options do we need here.

I was hoping panny would come out with something to counter the EX1/3 and they really didn't.

HD-SDI ot is nice but image quality is nicer.
 
You don't know if the 1/3" CCD can counter the 1/2" CCD technology until you see the image.

If the technology has advanced enough you could see very comparable images between the 150 and 170 model Panasonic cameras to the EX-1 Cam.

The EX-3 Counterpart is the HPX500, although the EX-3 looks to come in at much less for a FULL package, Lens included.

Used to be Pana and Canon on the watch. Now it's Pana and Sony.
 
David Jimerson said:
It's pretty much the HVX200A without the tape drive, and a size closer to the DVX.
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Sort of, but not really though. You have to see it. The 170 is just so much smaller and sleeker, it's going to be a lot more hand-holdable than the 200 ever was. It's way lighter; Panasonic says the 200 was 5.8 pounds, the new 170 is 4.2 pounds. It's basically a little bit bigger than a DVX but not much.

HD-SDI output, 20 variable frame rates, time/date stamp, new chipset, way lower noise, waveform monitor built in, and the six-pin firewire port are all nice additions. The one I saw was a non-functional unit so that's all I can tell you on the HPX170 right now; maybe tomorrow there'll be more literature or I can harangue some facts out of the reps.

You have to see it to see what I mean, but there's a definite "I want it" quality to the 170 vs. the 200. The 200/200A looks like it will be mainly for those making the transition who still need DV tape, but for anyone else I expect the 170 will be the one they want to go for.

The 170 and the 150 looked almost identical.
 
Mark Harris said:
can anyone point me to even a basic understanding of why 120FPS is that much harder than 60? Technically, I mean? Is there a limit to the chips or recording, etc.?
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There are a number of reasons. First is: the codec chips were never built to provide that. The DVCPRO-HD and AVC-HD formats were spec'd to work at 60fps maximum. The hardware simply can't do it, and if they were to write their own custom nonstandard format, then they'd have a custom nonstandard format, and neither Sony nor panasonic want that. And then they'd have to manufacture, test, debug, certify, and produce new format chips, and that'd be a major cost issue and start the whole R&D reclamation clock ticking again, vs. using existing already-amortized chips.

Somebody like Red can do it, because their format is basically for internal use only; they're not trying to comply with broadcast standards. It's all pretty much software to them, their redcode isn't even burned on a chip, so they can freely update it. Panasonic and Sony burn chips, and the chips they've built max out at 60fps because that's all broadcast ever required.

Second reason is the chips and the heat issue; it's very tough to get a CCD to go that fast. They'd have to go CMOS to do it, and that would bring a rolling shutter with it.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
I have the same feeling David. Maybe the HVX200A is renamed to HPX170 ???
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No, the HVX200A was announced on a press release. It's basically unchanged except it gets the new low-noise, more-sensitive chipset. The 170 is a totally new unit.

I should get some more time with each and should be able to file a better report. What I reported earlier was basically what the press conference was telling us.
 
Stevet said:
The HPX170 sounds nice, but I was hoping Panasonic would of offered an HVX200 replacement with 1/2" CCDs. The HD-SDI out is a great addition.
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Seems like Panasonic is content to let the HPX500 be their representative i the middle ground. Last year when I was down in Australia at the SMPTE conference, the Panasonic representative there really hammered on 1/2" chips, saying that they're not a professional size and that if you want a pro camera you want 2/3", and if you want a small camera you want 1/3". Sony obviously feels differently, but what I draw from this is that anyone expecting 1/2" from Panasonic is going to be waiting a long time. They'll just market the 2/3" HPX500 more aggressively with the $2,000 rebate.

The 170 looks like a sweet little followup to the 200, and while no firm price was announced I expect it to be less expensive than the 200 (even though it adds stuff like a waveform monitor, HD-SDI, and a six-pin firewire port). The model number is smaller, and that should mean the pricetag is smaller too. But again, they didn't say for sure.
 
taormina said:
Why wouldn't a DVX owner just buy an HVX? How many low end options do we need here.
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Many have. The 170 is a sleeker, smaller, tighter 200. I think most people who were aiming for the 200 will likely opt for the 170 instead now; the 200A's main raison d'etre is that it's a bridge product because of the tape.

I was hoping panny would come out with something to counter the EX1/3 and they really didn't.
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Well, depends on how you look at it. The HPX500 counters the EX3 rather nicely, being a 2/3" camera vs. 1/2", at $7999. But no, they didn't introduce another model above the 200 (well, the 200A, which is a 200 plus lower noise, more sensitivity, and less image smear).

Hey, frankly, how doesn't that counter the EX1? The main things the EX1 has over the HVX200 is better sensitivity, lower noise, immunity from smear, and more sharpness. With the 200A they've increased the sensitivity, lowered the noise, and "greatly" reduced the potential for smear. So it looks like they're trying to match the EX1 head to head on all those issues except sharpness (no claims were made of higher resolution); so now if someone wants a sharper image and is willing to pay $1500 more for it and put up with the defective lens and rolling shutter issues, they can get an EX1. Or if they want to save $1500 and avoid rolling shutter issues, they can get an HVX200A, but it won't be as sharp.

Seems like a pretty decent counter actually. But no, it's not 1/2".
 
Barry_Green said:
Hey, frankly, how doesn't that counter the EX1? The main things the EX1 has over the HVX200 is better sensitivity, lower noise, immunity from smear, and more sharpness. With the 200A they've increased the sensitivity, lowered the noise, and "greatly" reduced the potential for smear. So it looks like they're trying to match the EX1 head to head on all those issues except sharpness (no claims were made of higher resolution)
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The pdf brochure for the 200A claims that the sharpness and resolution have been improved too, because of the updated lens that it now has.
 
They're saying the 200A has an updated lens? Interesting. I'll have to check on that. I would be surprised because it looks like the body is identical to the 200; the only change seems to be in the chipset inside. But maybe it's new glass.
 
"The new AG-HVX200A with its newly-developed CCD raises the signal to noise performance while enhancing the low-light performance of the camera as well. Coupled with the new 30mm wide-angle zoom lens, this new version of the HVX200 addresses even more applications and meets the needs of user with more critical needs."

That is from the front page of the PDF, and further down it says -

'The low-dispersion glass reduces color aberration and increases resolution, while a multi-coating process minimizes flare and ghosting. The results in sharp, crisp, beautifully rendered images with delicate nuances and exception shading.'

The new lens might just be the same as the old one but slightly wider, its hard to tell if the second description is referring specifically to the new one or is just a general description taken from the old 200 brochure
 
I have to say, the 170 sounds pretty fascinating to me.
Sure, not a 'red killer' or anything like that - but plenty to get excited about I think.
Sounds like most of what I don't use on the 200 was stripped away, and much of what I'd like to see on the 200 was added (SDI output, 6pin ports, WAVEFORM MONITOR!).

Any news on the specifics of the built in waveform?
That's something I"ve been wanting to see for a while on a cam (and it's one of the many on our 'wish list' of HVX200 upgrade options here).

Just want to make sure that's a monitoring feature that can be used while shooting - not just during review of footage - or when not recording.

Also - any changes to the focus assist on the 200a or the 170 from what we have now on the 200?

Also - any news on the firewire port on both the 200a and the 170? Hopefully panasonic stopped crippling it so those of us using Firestores can playback HD footage out of the component outputs now.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Any news on the specifics of the built in waveform?
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The only thing I know about it is that there's a button on the body that says "WFM" and one of the press releases said "waveform monitor." I'm hoping that it's like the WFM on the P2 Gear; if so, it'll actually be pretty sweet. Look at my review on the P2 Gear -- the waveform monitor on it is nicer and higher res than the waveform monitor on their BT-LH series of monitors.

Just want to make sure that's a monitoring feature that can be used while shooting - not just during review of footage - or when not recording.

Also - any changes to the focus assist on the 200a or the 170 from what we have now on the 200?
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Questions like this need to wait for the show floor to open. All we have now is a bunch of press releases and they don't include details.

Also - any news on the firewire port on both the 200a and the 170? Hopefully panasonic stopped crippling it so those of us using Firestores can playback HD footage out of the component outputs now.
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The only "crippling" going on is when someone chooses to use a firestore! :evil:

Okay, okay, I kid. Um, don't know, but it's possible because the P2 Gear can pass through an HD signal. If they put the same components in the HVX200A or HPX170, perhaps it'll work like that. I wouldn't count on it, but hopefully we can be pleasantly surprised.
 
What is stripped away from the 170 what you didn't use on the 200 ???


Luis Caffesse said:
I have to say, the 170 sounds pretty fascinating to me.
Sure, not a 'red killer' or anything like that - but plenty to get excited about I think.
Sounds like most of what I don't use on the 200 was stripped away, and much of what I'd like to see on the 200 was added (SDI output, 6pin ports, WAVEFORM MONITOR!).

Any news on the specifics of the built in waveform?
That's something I"ve been wanting to see for a while on a cam (and it's one of the many on our 'wish list' of HVX200 upgrade options here).

Just want to make sure that's a monitoring feature that can be used while shooting - not just during review of footage - or when not recording.

Also - any changes to the focus assist on the 200a or the 170 from what we have now on the 200?

Also - any news on the firewire port on both the 200a and the 170? Hopefully panasonic stopped crippling it so those of us using Firestores can playback HD footage out of the component outputs now.
Click to expand...
 
This may be a stupid question but what are the true differences between the:

HMC150
HPX170
HVX200a

???
 
If there was one single welcome feature that sony brought to the table with the EX1, then my vote would be for a TRUE MANUAL LENS. And their subsequent offerings (S270, Z7, EX3) have followed on here, with interchangeability as well. So my question has to be what is the 170 like in this respect?

If it relies on servos for focus/iris, I'm not impressed.
 
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