Best shotgun for $650~
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TyFord
Well-known member
Depending on one mic to work in all situations is like trying to play a round of golf with one club. Interference tube shotgun mics don't work well in most regular indoor spaces and not well in highly reflective outdoor spaces.
Lavs, wired or wireless have their uses as do good hypercardioid boom mics.
The good audio kit should have at least one shotgun, one hypercardioid and two lavs and a good mixer. If used properly, the difference is stunningly obvious.
People's will forgive a funky picture way before they will forgive funky sound.
I'm trying to do some audio post work with a local film maker now who shot an 80 minute feature without paying a lot of attention to the sound. Distorted tracks, one guy is way off mic in a number of two shots, wrong mic choice in others -- your basic audio nightmare.
I will probably not take the job because I can't fix a lot of what's broken. I don't want anyone seeing my name on the credits and thinking I screwed up the sound.
Good audio is not trivial. Getting it right so you don't have to look back and make excuses for it in the future is the best decision. It may not seem appealing to you now, but that's the "tough love" truth.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Lavs, wired or wireless have their uses as do good hypercardioid boom mics.
The good audio kit should have at least one shotgun, one hypercardioid and two lavs and a good mixer. If used properly, the difference is stunningly obvious.
People's will forgive a funky picture way before they will forgive funky sound.
I'm trying to do some audio post work with a local film maker now who shot an 80 minute feature without paying a lot of attention to the sound. Distorted tracks, one guy is way off mic in a number of two shots, wrong mic choice in others -- your basic audio nightmare.
I will probably not take the job because I can't fix a lot of what's broken. I don't want anyone seeing my name on the credits and thinking I screwed up the sound.
Good audio is not trivial. Getting it right so you don't have to look back and make excuses for it in the future is the best decision. It may not seem appealing to you now, but that's the "tough love" truth.
Regards,
Ty Ford
i thought you can read English if you writing funny revues in that language
i thought you can read English if you writing funny revues in that language
mi mic! mio!
Well I have one Oktaba MK-012a (hypercardioid) and one AT4073a right now. I preamp and monitor with a Sound Devices MixPre into an HVX-200.
My current quarrel is with the shotgun. It sounds WAY metallic when compared back to back with the tiny little Oktaba.
I do have other problems, namely no lavs, a short boom pole (9'2") no recorder to simplify the mix process and limit the number of levels being way off, but a Sound Devices 702T is too much... I'd either have to start getting real gigs or sell all my lights, just not happening very soon, still have some more to go for that
I heard the MK60's can work very well in a one mic bag but that is still a bit more than I can afford now even if I sell both of my mics so I'd have to sell the MixPre also and settle for a monitoring box with just phantom and headphones but then I just might have enough for one of those Pro mics, so should I really do that? sell the mixPre, nice shotgun and the awesome hypercardioid and go to one mic and no pro preamps?
Also I heard about the Schoeps CMIT-5 being very similar or better when compared to the Seinheiser (MK60). EDIT: But that is way out of my league right? ($2k new!)
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We have a couple of AT4073 at work, and I didn't think they sounded metallic.
Are you powering it correctly? Working it in close?
9 ft. pole is good for narrative dialog CU or MS.
HVX200 has good audio. You have good gear!
Consider a Lav.
One person cannot do everything. If you are a DP I guarantee sound is an afterthough for you.
Find someone to help.
Are you powering it correctly? Working it in close?
9 ft. pole is good for narrative dialog CU or MS.
HVX200 has good audio. You have good gear!
Consider a Lav.
One person cannot do everything. If you are a DP I guarantee sound is an afterthough for you.
Find someone to help.
gco
Veteran
Always good to hear from you Ty!
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
The 4073a does not like most interiors. If there are even slight echo issues the 4073a will make it worse. That is mostly an outdoor shotgun... there will be some large interiors where that mic will work, but generally that gun belongs outside. Use the Oktava for your interiors and you should be fine.
Some of the better shotguns can blur the line between indoor and outdoor mic. A Sanken cs3e works pretty good in many interiors, and my 416 did a lot of interiors, as does my AKG ck69 gun... but I would never consider any of those as an only mic.
What I'm sure you mean by metallic is actually echo in the room... or excess ambiance of the voice. This happens with really sensitive guns that hear the voice bouncing off other things in the room beyond the point of mic'ing. The 4073a is so hot that you really have to pad it down for the few interiors that it will handle.
From the kit you described it doesn't sound like you should be in desperate need of a mic though. I would forget the one mic idea. That's moving in the wrong direction.
Some of the better shotguns can blur the line between indoor and outdoor mic. A Sanken cs3e works pretty good in many interiors, and my 416 did a lot of interiors, as does my AKG ck69 gun... but I would never consider any of those as an only mic.
What I'm sure you mean by metallic is actually echo in the room... or excess ambiance of the voice. This happens with really sensitive guns that hear the voice bouncing off other things in the room beyond the point of mic'ing. The 4073a is so hot that you really have to pad it down for the few interiors that it will handle.
From the kit you described it doesn't sound like you should be in desperate need of a mic though. I would forget the one mic idea. That's moving in the wrong direction.
tmnt
King of Australia
I'm going to start doing some weddings and wanted (at least for a while) to go with just a shotgun. Could I use the AT4073a in largish rooms (reception)? Keep in mind there's going to be lots of people, furniture, curtains etc to dampen. I'll be just capturing the people toasting and what not.
The actual ceremonies will be outside.
The actual ceremonies will be outside.
TyFord
Well-known member
You can always do it. Just know that those folks making noise to the side of your mic -- talking or the band playing or whatever -- are getting into the mic in a very unflattering way and mixing with the audio you're trying to get. That's the problem with an interference tube mic. An interference tube is that long tube with slots in it that you see on shotgun mics.
That's why they call for , "QUIET ON THE SET" before rolling.
I tell most people who come to me for a full paid audio consult that. I like the 4073a. It's very sensitive and has a good reach, but if you're in a crowd of talking people, I'd steer you towards a hypercardioid or supercardioid so you would be picking up as much crap off the side. The best mic for that is the Schoeps CMC641. It doesn't have the reach of the 4073a, but it does have reach and sounds terrific. Not cheap; probably around $2K now with the dollar down. I own two of 'em and they are my first grab.
The Audix SCX-1 HC is a less expensive but good for the price step down.
The Sanken Cs-3e is also a contender. It looks like an interference tube mic, but instead of being hollow, the tube is packed with additional diaphragms and DSP to create the pattern. And a nice tight pattern it is.
Regards,
Ty Ford
That's why they call for , "QUIET ON THE SET" before rolling.
I tell most people who come to me for a full paid audio consult that. I like the 4073a. It's very sensitive and has a good reach, but if you're in a crowd of talking people, I'd steer you towards a hypercardioid or supercardioid so you would be picking up as much crap off the side. The best mic for that is the Schoeps CMC641. It doesn't have the reach of the 4073a, but it does have reach and sounds terrific. Not cheap; probably around $2K now with the dollar down. I own two of 'em and they are my first grab.
The Audix SCX-1 HC is a less expensive but good for the price step down.
The Sanken Cs-3e is also a contender. It looks like an interference tube mic, but instead of being hollow, the tube is packed with additional diaphragms and DSP to create the pattern. And a nice tight pattern it is.
Regards,
Ty Ford
So from what I hear, if I stick to using the 4073 outside which is why I got it, and the Oktaba inside, then my priority should be getting a longer boom and replace my MixPre for SD 702T to help my just a boom setup... or scratch that and get lavs?
which way should I be pointing? recorder or lavs?
which way should I be pointing? recorder or lavs?
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
upgrade to 302
get 702t
get 2 wireless with cos11x lav.
get 702t
get 2 wireless with cos11x lav.
dont really know what type of buisness you do but
i was more looking for wierless setup and rid off the oktava for something better ( and there are allot better mics
and forget the shoeps - bmw
the same you can get with mkh-50 or gefell 210 for less money
the benfit of the 50 it can work outside as well in humidity situations
( by the way not as mr t i have them all to place the logo bulshit on theside :-. by the way cx-1 mics , at least the capsules are mbho , i suspect that the bodies are the same as 604 preamp but not sure on that ), very good mics but esspecially the cardioid which sounds one of the best )
Sounds ideal but that's crazy money for me. Eventually I might sell the MixPre to buy the 702T which supposedly has the same pre-amps (or at least good enough for me) I am thinking in this direction because the cheapest mics you guys seem to be strongly suggesting are ~$1200. So then I guess I definitely want lavs first since that might end up being ~ the same $ than the mic ... and it would be much more versatile... to make it easier let me write a list of what I am thinking about now and then you guys can say which order you'd prefer
1. Upgrade to longer non-internally cabled boom (mine is hard to operate without clunking noises)(me operating
)2. Lavs/Recorder
3. Lavs Recorder
4. Mk-50 or better
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dont buy new and you will not pay 1200
dont buy schoeps and you will not be sloten by the logo
good hyper or dicent wierless sistem s wjhat you need to think first
the recorder could be bought later
look at mbho mics the 604 or 603 preamp ( dont go for the 648 even it cheaper) with ka-500 apsule instead the octava ( new about 750-850)
or gefel 210- new about 1200 , used 700-800
the mkh-50 is about the same maibe 100 more for new
schoeps =bmw- big money waist
dont buy schoeps and you will not be sloten by the logo
good hyper or dicent wierless sistem s wjhat you need to think first
the recorder could be bought later
look at mbho mics the 604 or 603 preamp ( dont go for the 648 even it cheaper) with ka-500 apsule instead the octava ( new about 750-850)
or gefel 210- new about 1200 , used 700-800
the mkh-50 is about the same maibe 100 more for new
schoeps =bmw- big money waist
lavaliers - sanken usially live longer then others , relevantly cheap ( near dpa or mke2-gold)
dont buy b-6 as it is not good for windy situations , good as aditional lav , not as prime
buy good pocket recorder whic can use you record from the mixer or attach lavalier directly , maybe good idia till you get money for normal wierless sytem
702 t ?
you can buy zaxcom zfr for 1300 for 2 channels with tc , up to 12 hours recording on mini sd cards .and feed it with your mix pre or any other mixer later . of course it could use as pocket recorder for lav as well ( 3 pin lemo connector, exactly as sennheiser 3000or 5000series)
best
dont buy b-6 as it is not good for windy situations , good as aditional lav , not as prime
buy good pocket recorder whic can use you record from the mixer or attach lavalier directly , maybe good idia till you get money for normal wierless sytem
702 t ?
you can buy zaxcom zfr for 1300 for 2 channels with tc , up to 12 hours recording on mini sd cards .and feed it with your mix pre or any other mixer later . of course it could use as pocket recorder for lav as well ( 3 pin lemo connector, exactly as sennheiser 3000or 5000series)
best
wow... lots of equipment I wasn't considering, thanks!
Oleg, is there a reliable transmitter that I could use from the Mixer to the camera? Might be a wild idea, not sure, but that might also later work for lavs after I get a recorder or when directly plugging the mixer to the camera...?
Then I could be free from the camera if needed
Also, do you mean that the mbho 603 preamp with the ka-500 hypercardioid would be better alone than the AT4073a and MK012a toghether?
Oleg, is there a reliable transmitter that I could use from the Mixer to the camera? Might be a wild idea, not sure, but that might also later work for lavs after I get a recorder or when directly plugging the mixer to the camera...?
Then I could be free from the camera if needed
Also, do you mean that the mbho 603 preamp with the ka-500 hypercardioid would be better alone than the AT4073a and MK012a toghether?
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