What's the best way to tune my colors

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kees.duif

Member
I tuned my LCD TV-set at home (not Full HD but just HD ready) in a way that looking at news bulletins I see natural and vivid contrasts, colors and skin tones. And looking at DVD's I produced with my old Canon XM1 footage I see the same natural and vivid contrasts, colors and skin tones on that TV-set. So when I bought the Canon XH A1, 1 month ago, I expected to see even better and more natural and more vivid contrasts, colors and skin tones. I knew that the colors of the cam would be bad right out-of-the-box but I thougt that that would be a matter of finetuning and configuring one or two good presets.

But after a month I still donn't have the right preset(s) I can work with and the first wedding is due in another month. I thought I best configure the cam when it is connected to my TV-set. But connecting via AV-out produces complete other pictuers than connecting via the Component output. And both of them produce other pictures than the LCD screen on the cam. When I think on one screen that red is too red, on another screen it is not, or vice versa.

So I thought I do it the way I do productions: shooting, capturing, editing, rendering, burn it to DVD and watch that DVD om my TV-set.
But I'm busy now for over a week tweaking two presets which come very close to what I want to see. Little bit more of this or little bit less of that and everytime, shooting, capturing, rendering and burn it. I'm very close to what I think looks good on MY TV. But how can I be sure that my productions will be appreciated by my customers when they look at it on their TV-sets?

No I know that on this website (and others) presets can be found (like Trucolor and 3dB) that were tuned using a color chart and a Vectorscope to produce natural colors (in a tecnnical way) But when I use that presets I donn't like that colors a lot. Using that presets I donn't see natural and vivid contrasts, colors and skin tones on my TV-set.

So I'm very curious if I'm the only one who encounters this problem? And how do/did others tune their presets?
 
I think you have to separate your camera from your TV. By that I mean that you are using your TV as a reference for what your footage actually looks like and unless you have a calibrated video monitor you don't really know what you have on tape. Now I know that most people don't have access to true broadcast monitors so therein lies the dilemma. Without one you are literally wandering around in the dark, guessing at the proper preset to use.

I would recommend that you use a preset that is widely used by the pros on this and other boards. I suspect that there is no one right answer here, as personal preference plays a large part in the decision. I would also disagree with you that the standard Canon preset provides bad color. It's a fairly neutral setting that's pretty middle of the road and gives you a lot of options in post that others might not.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have used presets but have not tinkered with any of their settings. I've shot most of my footage using the standard Canon A1 setting but have experimented with some other presets. One thing I've learned is while the VIVIDRGB setting can do wonderful things, it will take images of snow and twist the colors off in very odd directions, like red. Experimentation can help determine the best preset, but you need an accurate monitor to get the right answer.

As a final thought, I'd trust the component connections to your TV much more than the other "AV" connections (S-video and composite) as component provides better image resolution and is, by definition, more accurate.

Hope that helps.
 
Yes,l I saw that thread and read it. I'm busy working with that preset for a few days now and after tuning it a little I can say that it really is the best I worked with. It's a winner that produces in various (light) conditions 98% of what I think is good, natural video on DVD. I guess I have to learn howe to interprete the LCD screen on the cam and use it mainly for composing.
 
kees.duif said:
Yes,l I saw that thread and read it. I'm busy working with that preset for a few days now and after tuning it a little I can say that it really is the best I worked with. It's a winner that produces in various (light) conditions 98% of what I think is good, natural video on DVD. I guess I have to learn howe to interprete the LCD screen on the cam and use it mainly for composing.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. When you're ready, do you mind sharing your preset changes and possible file.:thumbsup:
 
kees.duif said:
Yes,l I saw that thread and read it. I'm busy working with that preset for a few days now and after tuning it a little I can say that it really is the best I worked with. It's a winner that produces in various (light) conditions 98% of what I think is good, natural video on DVD. I guess I have to learn howe to interprete the LCD screen on the cam and use it mainly for composing.
Click to expand...

I put that preset in my camera a couple days ago. I'm going to try it. I was surprised at how much bluer the image on the LCD is, compared to what I was seeing in real life (especially in reds). Is the LCD really calibrated that far off? I also wonder how much variance there is between cameras. Does the preset (or any preset) need to be tuned for cameras individually?
 
I donn't know for others but my LCD is very calibrated off comparing to what I see on my LCD TV after rendering and burning. As for the tuning of the preset: I think it depends on what kinf of shooting you do with your cam. When you shoot only for yourself and look at the result on one specific TV or monitor all the time, you should tune the preset to deliver pictures on that TV or monitor that you like. But when you shoot weddings, like I do, you never know on what TV or monitor your clients will look at the result. In that case you best use a preset (like Trucolor) that delivers the right measurements on a Vector scope and other equipment. My problem is that my eyes look so much different from that equipment. When the equipment says that the pictures look good, my eyes see pictures to dark and not brilliant enough. I guess I have to live with that.
Life was so much easier before when I used the XM1 instead of the Xh A1 :embarasse
 
When you use Paolo's "TrueColor" preset, does the color in the camera's LCD match the color you are seeing in real life? (I don't mean in comparison to the image on another display.)
 
No, not on my lcd screen. Although I try to configure it in the menu. As far as I can see anything on that damned little screen I see richer colors and more contrast ( to much of both) than I see in the real world around me. But the final DVD result is very good.
 
Using that preset, reds look much bluer than real life, on the camera's LCD. I haven't looked at an image on my computer monitor yet, to see if I get similar results there. I don't have any high end monitors, but if the reds still show up that blue on my computer screen, something is almost surely off with that preset (or my camera's calibration maybe?).
 
That's why I made my own preset. I finished it last weekend with some final tests. I made the preset, based on the Factory setting, to create footage with vivid and natural colors under various lighting conditions. Based on trial and error and testing the results via shooting all day stuff in my living room, my kitchen and the surroundings around our house, then capturing -> rendering -> burn it to DVD and watch it on my TV, I tuned the preset by comparing what I see on the TV to what I see with my bare eyes around me. I tested it with bright sunlight, with a cloudy sky (indoors and outdoors), and during the evening with low-light and with my PAG light (also indoors and outdoors) and I see what I like and like what I see so I call it REALITY. For those who want to try I added a copy (remove .txt and change -CPF into .CPF)
 

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