From Jan Crittenden's response in the HVX200a thread -- "However be assured that if everything on this list were to be on a new camera, no one including me could afford it" -- one could deduce that expectations should be scaled back, both for any possible 200a (which I think increasingly unlikely) or an HVX successor. I disagree with her in that I believe most of the suggestions should be doable in a sub-$8K HVX successor, not necessarily the "a" (which would have the same form factor as the HVX and thus not permit, for example, larger sensors), but a new design. Unfortunately, Panasonic may have a slight problem if it did release an "HVX300" and a 200a: either charge significantly more for the 300, or lower the price of the 200a (to, say, $4,200-$4,500). The latter, however, would put the 200a in possible price competition with the HMC150.
Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"
- Thread starter Barry_Green
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Robert M Wright
Well-known member
One thing that could get me real interested in the HMC150 would be if Panasonic offered a reasonably good quality anamorphic adapter for it, at an affordable price, that would allow shooting 2.35:1 using the full real estate of the imagers. Assuming the camera (lens, imagers, etc.) performs reasonably well, that could make for some pretty sharp imagery. Since AVCHD uses 4:2:0 color, that would even be oversampling chroma information by about 25% also.
Barry_Green
Moderator
? An anamorphic adapter wouldn't change chroma sampling at all. It would just change the shape of the light entering the lens (squishing it horizontally, optically). Chroma sampling is a digital process and wouldn't be affected.
You could use the existing Panasonic anamorphic adapter on a 16:9 camera to get 2.35:1. It remains to be seen if the HMC150 has a 72mm lens thread though. And the existing panasonic anamorphic adapter's only real bonus is its price tag; it's not much to write home about.
You could use the existing Panasonic anamorphic adapter on a 16:9 camera to get 2.35:1. It remains to be seen if the HMC150 has a 72mm lens thread though. And the existing panasonic anamorphic adapter's only real bonus is its price tag; it's not much to write home about.
BobDiaz
The Professor
In terms of other things that could be on my wish list:
(Yes, I know most won't happen, but one can dream...)
* IMPORTANT: Same batteries and accessories (where possible) as the HVX-200.
* NICE TO HAVE: 12 volt adapter, like a car outlet plug.
* IMPORTANT: Better LCD (Higher resolution, like the EX-1)
* CRITICAL: Option to display safe area & 4:3 lines on the display
* CRITICAL: Option to display Estimated battery life in minutes and remaining card capacity
* CRITICAL: Supports FAT 32, sorry, but if it's NTFS, my iMAC can't work with it...
Bob Diaz
(Yes, I know most won't happen, but one can dream...)
* IMPORTANT: Same batteries and accessories (where possible) as the HVX-200.
* NICE TO HAVE: 12 volt adapter, like a car outlet plug.
* IMPORTANT: Better LCD (Higher resolution, like the EX-1)
* CRITICAL: Option to display safe area & 4:3 lines on the display
* CRITICAL: Option to display Estimated battery life in minutes and remaining card capacity
* CRITICAL: Supports FAT 32, sorry, but if it's NTFS, my iMAC can't work with it...
Bob Diaz
Barry_Green
Moderator
Seems likely, as the HVX uses the same batteries and zoom/focus/iris controller as the DVX did.
Already exists; I think Bescor makes it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/269944-REG/Bescor_CLCD120_CLC_D120_Cigarette_Adapter.html
I'd rank this as highly important, and I also think the chances of us getting it range from "slim" to "fat" -- even the HPX3000 uses the same LCD as the HVX.
Already exists in the HVX, so seems likely for the HMC150.
Well, as far as the battery, no Panasonic camcorder does that. It'd probably require a battery update to deliver that, manufacturing batteries with some sort of communications chip in them. They could do it, I'm sure, but which would you rather have: compatibility with existing batteries, or minute-to-minute readout? I think it's reasonable to say that you can't have both, or we'd already have it (they've been using that same battery since before the original DVX in 2002; if it was possible I've got to think we'd already have it). My guess is that the panasonic system reads the voltage level of the battery, and uses that to guess and give the "1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full" graph. But to get battery readout in minutes, that'd probably require a change like Sony did when they went to "infoLithium"; I believe the "info" part of that was a communications chip that tells the camera what the battery's true status was, in much more detail than a simple voltage readout. Could be wrong, but that's the way I think it works.
As for the card capacity, it'd be preposterous to not have that, so getting that feature seems like a safe bet. The P2 system does it, and the SxS system does it; don't know if the existing AVC-HD camcorders do it or not but if they do, then I think this is a given for the 150.
Again, I think that's already a given. All SD cards are sold preformatted as FAT32, aren't they? Regardless, whatever the existing AVC-HD cameras are doing, this unit will have to do the same -- and I'm not hearing any complaints from mac users about not being able to read AVC-HD cards, so I think it's safe to say this one is already taken care of.
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William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Please please let the camera have image flip on all screens and outputs.
A screen where you can actually judge focus is critical! Underscan please. If the HDMI output could push 4:2:2, 10bit, 1920 full raster out that would be fantastic to hook up to the Cineform recorder. Depending on what Scarlet is, and how well these new imagers perform, it looks like the HMC could be my next camera.
Question: If I shoot something in the 720/60p mode, could I drop that into a 24p timeline and have 2.5 slow motion natively?
A screen where you can actually judge focus is critical! Underscan please. If the HDMI output could push 4:2:2, 10bit, 1920 full raster out that would be fantastic to hook up to the Cineform recorder. Depending on what Scarlet is, and how well these new imagers perform, it looks like the HMC could be my next camera.
Question: If I shoot something in the 720/60p mode, could I drop that into a 24p timeline and have 2.5 slow motion natively?
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filmguy123
Veteran
MAC uses HFS+ which is far superior to NTFS. Mac can support NTFS via MacFuse and 3G driver, but its not official, because Microsoft doesn't want Mac to support it; they'l probably allow it once MS finally replaces NTFS with WinFS, which was suppossed to debut with Vista, but pushed back. FAT32 is supported without any additional drivers/hacks by both Mac & Windows, which is why memory cards are formatted that way.
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
Assuming that the acquired image will be downsampled to achieve the proper DAR (letterboxed in 1080 lines) at a PAR of 1:1, you are starting with an oversampled image which will contain more color information than can be saved at 4:2:0 in the downsampled image (downsampling the image to 4:2:2 color space would yield a better result). Indeed, how the lens bends light doesn't affect that. Luma resolution would get a boost too, since cameras in this class don't really achieve actual 1080 line resolution performance (more like 800 lines or less).
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
Do you think the glass in the AG-LA7200 would be good enough, or would it just soften the image and make it pointless (compared to just cropping 16:9 output from the camera, in post, to achieve 2.35:1)?
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phd
Well-known member
Filmgay123
MAC uses HFS+ which is far superior to NTFS. Mac can support NTFS via MacFuse and 3G driver, but its not official, because Microsoft doesn't want Mac to support it; they'l probably allow it once MS finally replaces NTFS with WinFS, which was suppossed to debut with Vista, but pushed back. FAT32 is supported without any additional drivers/hacks by both Mac & Windows, which is why memory cards are formatted that way.
But FAT32 has limit to filesize and MAC can use NTFS
MAC uses HFS+ which is far superior to NTFS. Mac can support NTFS via MacFuse and 3G driver, but its not official, because Microsoft doesn't want Mac to support it; they'l probably allow it once MS finally replaces NTFS with WinFS, which was suppossed to debut with Vista, but pushed back. FAT32 is supported without any additional drivers/hacks by both Mac & Windows, which is why memory cards are formatted that way.
But FAT32 has limit to filesize and MAC can use NTFS
I shot some 60p footage trying to do slow-mo on accident. Good thing is that if you've done the shutter properly (1/60 or faster), decreasing the speed of the clip on the timeline in FCP actually does create the slow-mo effect and rather well IMO.
Also, Will, I agree with you on the abilities of the camera going further than just recording to inexpensive media. If indeed it is something similar to what you say VIA HDMI out then the 250.00 Blackmagic card and a nice portable cube PC could be a killer combination for great images and [more] compression options.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Exactly, I am thinking it would be like having an Andromeda - like mod built in but with a little less power and sans a 3k price tag.
It would certainly make those looking for better color space for keying happy. You're generally locked down in those situations anyway so having a computer nearby with a longer, secured HDMI cable wouldn't hurt.
The real deal is, like you said, if the performance on all fronts (not just Pana flavor, but resolution -- even though we can't expect much) is there.
Good thing it's almost April.
The real deal is, like you said, if the performance on all fronts (not just Pana flavor, but resolution -- even though we can't expect much) is there.
Good thing it's almost April.
filmguy123
Veteran
filmguy123
Veteran
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
As long as we record video onto FAT32 partitioned flash memory cards, we will need a software hack to put files that exceed a couple gigs back together, regardless of which platform we are on (Windows, Mac or Linux).
I say write the files to NTFS partitions, and Mac users should demand that Apple officially support the defacto standard for using large files and large capacity disk drives.
BobDiaz
The Professor
Summery Of My Predictions For The HMC150:
I don't have any "inside knowledge" of what Panasonic is doing, so this is just a collection of my own logical guesses about this camera. After NAB, it will be fun to see how close or far I came to the correct answer:
(1) List Price under $4,000.
(2) Maximum recording data rate 20 Mbps (or higher).
(3) Single Slot for Memory card.
(4) Improved CCD (also slightly larger than the HVX-200's CCD).
(5) Time Lapse Offered.
(6) Uncompressed Audio as well as a choice for compressed audio.
(7) Support for Standard Definition.
(8) 12x or 13x zoom.
(9) Images will look a lot like the HVX-200's images.
(10) Operation & Menus like the HVX-200; however, this last prediction is more of a "Duh!" prediction!
Because the camera does not come out until Fall 2008, it is still a work in progress. While the hardware design is mostly locked into place, the firmware (software) part is still under development. This means that by NAB, Panasonic may not commit to revealing all the features that will appear in the camera. This would leave their Marketing Department some flexibility should they need to make changes to the product features in the last few months of development.
Bob Diaz
I don't have any "inside knowledge" of what Panasonic is doing, so this is just a collection of my own logical guesses about this camera. After NAB, it will be fun to see how close or far I came to the correct answer:
(1) List Price under $4,000.
(2) Maximum recording data rate 20 Mbps (or higher).
(3) Single Slot for Memory card.
(4) Improved CCD (also slightly larger than the HVX-200's CCD).
(5) Time Lapse Offered.
(6) Uncompressed Audio as well as a choice for compressed audio.
(7) Support for Standard Definition.
(8) 12x or 13x zoom.
(9) Images will look a lot like the HVX-200's images.
(10) Operation & Menus like the HVX-200; however, this last prediction is more of a "Duh!" prediction!
Because the camera does not come out until Fall 2008, it is still a work in progress. While the hardware design is mostly locked into place, the firmware (software) part is still under development. This means that by NAB, Panasonic may not commit to revealing all the features that will appear in the camera. This would leave their Marketing Department some flexibility should they need to make changes to the product features in the last few months of development.
Bob Diaz