Need Some Advice About Switching to the EX1
- Thread starter Ben_McElroy
- Start date
Stevet
Veteran
?
You actually need to read the thread, my response has NOTHING to do about the thread topic.
We went on a tangent whether the CMOS shutter issue is well known to possible prospective buyers, it has NOTHING to do with "Need Some Advice About Switching to the EX1" from an HVX..... nothing.
Having said that if anything, we should not of stole the thread.............
You actually need to read the thread, my response has NOTHING to do about the thread topic.
We went on a tangent whether the CMOS shutter issue is well known to possible prospective buyers, it has NOTHING to do with "Need Some Advice About Switching to the EX1" from an HVX..... nothing.
Having said that if anything, we should not of stole the thread.............
422 vs 420..... Well, there is only one camera that offers 422 in this price-segment, and that is the HVX.
If you compare the HVX 422 to the 420 of the EX, you realise that the EX is far superior to the HVX's low-res upscaled and noisy picture qualitywise, in both keying and grading. I'm saying qualitywise, because some may prefer characteristics in one camera over the other, due to personal preferences, but if you by quality means sharpness, amount of grain and latitude then there is really no debate.
I'd say, the dvcpro-hd on the HVX is more or less a waste due to the low resolution of the ccd, 1gb per minute is ridicoulus for the quality you get.
AND this needs to be repeated: higher chromasample rates are first and foremost an issue when it comes to chromakeying. For grading, not so much - noise is a much bigger problem in that department.
And yeah, I own a HVX and have done side by side comparison. The only reason I'm not switching is the rolling shutter.
EDIT: I forgot to point out, that the EX does in fact key much better than the HVX despite it's 420 (since the overall image quality is so much sharper).
If you compare the HVX 422 to the 420 of the EX, you realise that the EX is far superior to the HVX's low-res upscaled and noisy picture qualitywise, in both keying and grading. I'm saying qualitywise, because some may prefer characteristics in one camera over the other, due to personal preferences, but if you by quality means sharpness, amount of grain and latitude then there is really no debate.
I'd say, the dvcpro-hd on the HVX is more or less a waste due to the low resolution of the ccd, 1gb per minute is ridicoulus for the quality you get.
AND this needs to be repeated: higher chromasample rates are first and foremost an issue when it comes to chromakeying. For grading, not so much - noise is a much bigger problem in that department.
And yeah, I own a HVX and have done side by side comparison. The only reason I'm not switching is the rolling shutter.
EDIT: I forgot to point out, that the EX does in fact key much better than the HVX despite it's 420 (since the overall image quality is so much sharper).
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Jim Kinsey
Well-known member
I guess I never " switched " just added another tool, to the arsenal of "story telling"...Most of the footage I shoot is outdoors under natural light. I also own the hvx200 and have since June of 2006 and I love it to. If your shooting musc vid's and " bad boy what ya going to do when they come for you" then rolling shutter could really mess up your show but here in Montana its just nothing but Big Sky all around.
JK
JK
Carl Marxx
Active member
Jim Kinsey
Well-known member
I will be tomorrow....
JK
JK
Nice. That's what I gathered, as well. 4:2:2 is wasted on the low resolution and noisey hardware.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Ich well id have to disagree, i think the 4:2:2 and the HD Dvc pro codec makes the key difference to me, than the long GoP codec of the EX. I've still to see footage with the same organic colour and colour detail as the HVX!
We're all entitled to our opinions however...
We're all entitled to our opinions however...
The EX1 should have the same chroma resolution as the HVX. So there shouldn't be any difference.
EX1: 1920x1080 Full raster 3xCMOS, but Long-Gop and 4:2:0 (makes 960x540 Chroma)
HVX200: 960x540 3xCCD, Intra Frame, 4:2:2 (960x540 chroma)
Am I wrong?
And sorry, I haven't seen any native HVX200 720p or even 1080p material to compare with. But the EX1 looks organic, too (at least with the right settings). Compared to the A1 there are worlds between the A1 hdv and EX1 longgop codec.
regards Dennis
EX1: 1920x1080 Full raster 3xCMOS, but Long-Gop and 4:2:0 (makes 960x540 Chroma)
HVX200: 960x540 3xCCD, Intra Frame, 4:2:2 (960x540 chroma)
Am I wrong?
And sorry, I haven't seen any native HVX200 720p or even 1080p material to compare with. But the EX1 looks organic, too (at least with the right settings). Compared to the A1 there are worlds between the A1 hdv and EX1 longgop codec.
regards Dennis
doondoon
Well-known member
I just screened some footage that I shot on an EX1 at FotoKem in Los Angeles. The footage was projected through a $400,000 state of the art 2K projector that is used in unison with a Master Reference quality Sony BVM CRT monitor & a DaVinci color grading suite.
We pushed the colors around and I never thought, nobody in the room thought, "oh the 4:2:0 colorspace just can't handle it". It looked like CineAlta footage. period.
We pushed the colors around and I never thought, nobody in the room thought, "oh the 4:2:0 colorspace just can't handle it". It looked like CineAlta footage. period.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Meh. Period!
Its all subjective anyway - look important thing is that they can all look good enough i their chosen applications!
Frustratingly enough theres yet an EX to test in Scotland yet lol but soooon my pretty's...
Its all subjective anyway - look important thing is that they can all look good enough i their chosen applications!
Frustratingly enough theres yet an EX to test in Scotland yet lol but soooon my pretty's...
doondoon
Well-known member
lawriejaffa.
You certainly have a strong opinion of the EX1 considering you have never tested one.
Hopefully you can get your hands on one soon.
I agree with you though. It is totally subjective.
Having said that, camera companies do play leap frog.
It's inevitable that one is going to be slightly ahead of the other for a bit before the other one takes back the lead.
Canon then Nikon. Panasonic then Sony. Red then ? Red :2vrolijk_08:
I'm just giving my two cents on the EX1, and the rest of the pocket change from the director, colorist, technician & projectionist at a major hollywood post house who have all seen more than their fare share of HVX footage (and every other format under the sun).
It was subjective as hell in that room.... and everybody really liked what they saw.
For the record I prefer the gamma curves and color of Panasonic. I own and use a couple HVX-200's. I love them. :love4:
In the near future however, I'm going to be renting them out and using an EX1 more often. The reason is that I believe the EX1 has surpassed the HVX by quite a bit.
It's not a big surprise is it?
Sony sat back and studied the HVX & the issues people had with it. Guess what they did? They addressed most of those issues.
Has every issue been addressed? NO, of course not.
Have new issues come up? YES, of course.
The question is which ISSUES do YOU want to deal with.
I guess I'm just plain tired of having the color space/gamma curve conversation when I'm looking down at my HVX LCD and can't judge focus and am underexposed by two stops. I no longer want to deal with this ISSUE anymore.
You know what... That's OK though, at least I know when I return home to review the footage all of the NOISE will be in a 4:2:2 color-space for me to fully enjoy... and since it's DVCPRO-HD frame for frame perhaps the noise will clean up nicely in Shake or After Effects.
rogar-Happy(DBG):If I really need the color space, I'll come out of the HD-SDI and record uncompressed to whatever codec I want... or better yet just shoot with the RED.
Hopefully the NEW HVX is announced at NAB, I'll buy one on the spot. Until then EX1
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Stevet
Veteran
True, we all have our own opinions....
If we didn't, heck we all might be driving the same car..LOLAll, I know is viewing the raw footage one after the other on a 1920x1080 monitor, I'm sure seeing a difference in noise, macro blocking in low levels, and rez.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Guess im lucky my hvx doesnt have as any macro blocking as urs did. But look, thats all good - we change gear exactly because there was bits that we hated in it and bits we loved in the new ones.
We're all naturally defensive about gear we love. I love the hvx, and i ain't that way about the EX but like u say doondoon still to really try one so ya never know! I wish folk would stop posting inflammatory crits (me too btw) about each others cams... that would make life on the hvx and ex sub threads here more interesting.
And Stevet at least you didn't put one of your 'sarcasm' special lols at the end of your 'im sure seeing a difference' line, are you starting to lighten up now or? hehe
We're all naturally defensive about gear we love. I love the hvx, and i ain't that way about the EX but like u say doondoon still to really try one so ya never know! I wish folk would stop posting inflammatory crits (me too btw) about each others cams... that would make life on the hvx and ex sub threads here more interesting.
And Stevet at least you didn't put one of your 'sarcasm' special lols at the end of your 'im sure seeing a difference' line, are you starting to lighten up now or? hehe
doondoon
Well-known member
Hope my comments don't seem inflammatory to anyone. I'm just calling it out how I see it.:thumbsup:
A B Hancock
Member
Right on, pal. In reading this forum for months I find a couple of members here who consistently take antagonistic and clearly biased positions towards the EX-1. Jeez I'm tired of the fanboy mentality...
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Yah well theres been a lot of that for and against just about every cam on this forum hancock! Which is a cool 2nd name to have actually!
Elton
Veteran
I, for one, appreciate the well-reasoned comments. You've obviously spent quality time with both cameras and don't do the fanboy thing.
With NAB around the corner, I'm sure we'll see a new round of leapfrogging from the manufacturers.
A B Hancock
Member
A forum is a mature exchange of ideas--always instructive and welcomed.
The following "post" (one so very typical of the author) is cobative and infantile crap:
I rest my case.
I'm outta here.
The following "post" (one so very typical of the author) is cobative and infantile crap:
I rest my case.
I'm outta here.