DVrig HD knock off from India

jade8472 said:
You're still missing the point. Did Letus, Redrock, Cinevate etc. simply copy the P+S design? Or did they spent years and thousands of dollars in R & D to come up with THEIR OWN design that they market for a fraction of the cost. ... That is NOT what these India companies are doing. They're simply taking apart existing products, producing them cheaply and selling it at a fraction of the price.
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Thanks, Jade. That's exactly what I meant.

There's innovation, and then there's imitation, and then there's ripping off.
 
Yes, Jade and Barry. It seems so simple I have a hard time understanding what people don't understand about patent breaking.
 
I'd like to open a thread just on this topic because it really confuses me when you say they came up with their own design? How so? By making a different looking exterior around what has already been made? Have you personally used any of these Indian made products? If not, how can you label them as knock offs? So far they are the only company that included something to go around the focus to keep it locked on their 35mm adapter. Secondly, which has already been pointed out, everything is a copy of a copy of a copy, if not, there would only be one wheel on all the cars out there, you can only make it better. Other than the G35, which is still yet to be released, has done this. I'm simply stating, all the main stream 35mm adpaters did not invent the idea to focus an image on a GG, they did not invent the oscillating design nor did they invent the vibrating design. They simply made it into the hands of the public at a lower cost than the P+S with their own money and hard work.
 
Well reasoned, except perhaps naive on how the Indian ripoff industry works. There's a massive industry in India (and China) which is devoted to directly duplicating existing products. They do it with cars, they do it with all sorts of things. They disassemble parts, duplicate the parts, and then make their own.

Check out the Chery QQ, a ripoff of a Daewoo.
http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publi...ring_buzz/road_tests/hatchback0/chery_qq.html

Here's a list of the top 10 ripoff cars:
http://gemssty.com/2006/10/29/top-10-copycat-cars/

That's what we object to. If someone engineers their own product, and doesn't infringe any patents, then hey -- that's the free market economy at work. But if what they're doing is cloning someone else's design on the cheap, that's not cool.
 
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laugh, man, they should be recognized for being able to copy cat so well. even the logo was brilliantly copied. Hollywood seems to be the same way these days. Every so often you'll get an original movie, instead of a knock off, copy of the original.
 
Car3o said:
I'm simply stating, all the main stream 35mm adpaters did not invent the idea to focus an image on a GG, they did not invent the oscillating design nor did they invent the vibrating design. They simply made it into the hands of the public at a lower cost than the P+S with their own money and hard work.
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Wow, you make developing an adapter sound so easy, maybe I should make one of my own. But wait a minute. How the heck am I going to know the ideal speed to spin the GG? What kind of materials should I use for best diffusion and lowest light loss? How the heck can I make sure there's no vignetting or hotspots in the footage? WTH??! I thought somebody ALREADY invented all of this stuff so I can just "put a different exterior" around it. What's going on?!!!

And btw, the Indian knock off of the M2 has already been purchased and tested around these parts. Even Redrock certified that these are ripoff of their own design, and poorly done ones at that.
 
I'm not degrading your ability to make a 35mm adapter, but it's quite simple. Do some research, like the guys who made the Redrock, SGpro and Let...and wait, Cinevate and I, and you'll be able to make one. I've made a dozen, at least.

I did read the review on the Indian "knock off" adapter, and it's just like every other spinning adapter out there. A frosted spinning GG in a box. The quality does suck, but hey, how many of these adapters first come out had a few more come out that were better than the last.
 
Car3o said:
I'm not degrading your ability to make a 35mm adapter, but it's quite simple. Do some research, like the guys who made the Redrock, SGpro and Let...and wait, Cinevate and I, and you'll be able to make one. I've made a dozen, at least.
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Again, you completely missed my point and the sarcasm. I know what the basic principles are involved in making an adapter. But making a good one goes WAY beyond "putting a different exterior" on existing concepts. Prototypes have to be built and discarded, rigorous testings have to be performed. All of this takes time and money. Companies that rip off other people's design simply reverse engineer an existing unit and replicate it; it costs a lot less. In the early days there were at least half a dozen DIY 35mm adapter models around, but most of them are gone now. Why? Because the bar has been raised and to remain competitive, those people had to go back to the drawing board and improve on their design, which of course takes time and money.
 
jade8472 said:
Again, you completely missed my point and the sarcasm. I know what the basic principles are involved in making an adapter. But making a good one goes WAY beyond "putting a different exterior" on existing concepts. Prototypes have to be built and discarded, rigorous testings have to be performed. All of this takes time and money. Companies that rip off other people's design simply reverse engineer an existing unit and replicate it; it costs a lot less. In the early days there were at least half a dozen DIY 35mm adapter models around, but most of them are gone now. Why? Because the bar has been raised and to remain competitive, those people had to go back to the drawing board and improve on their design, which of course takes time and money.
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Riiiiigggghhhhttttt.......
 
I do not agree with patent breaking but as it was mentioned before by Teddybear you all keep forgetting that even though most people know that they will get what they will pay for there's some people who in other countries who simply cannot pay for what they would like...be it cars or cameras or what have you. I can give an example of an adapter that is being made in Brazil called apefos (I think that's it). Even though this adapter is way cheaper than the others I didn't buy it because I was not happy with the quality of the images I've seen...BUT, I'm sure that in Brazil there are loads of people who cannot afford other solutions. So I fully endorse that alternative solutions exist and are available for all kinds of people. I see that many people here luckily never had to experience this type of reality, nor can fully understand it. Luckily I never hard any needs while I was living in Brazil, but all I needed to do was to take a walk to see how lucky I was. Does any of you have any idea how hard it is trying to make cinema in a third world country?
 
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Car3o said:
I'm not degrading your ability to make a 35mm adapter, but it's quite simple. Do some research, like the guys who made the Redrock, SGpro and Let...and wait, Cinevate and I, and you'll be able to make one. I've made a dozen, at least.

I did read the review on the Indian "knock off" adapter, and it's just like every other spinning adapter out there. A frosted spinning GG in a box. The quality does suck, but hey, how many of these adapters first come out had a few more come out that were better than the last.
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But you'd be the first to cry about the loss of intellectual property...well, maybe not since you may not have an understanding of it as evidenced by your previous posts.
 
rawfa said:
I do not agree with patent breaking but as it was mentioned before by Teddybear you all keep forgetting that even though most people know that they will get what they will pay for there's some people who in other countries who simply cannot pay for what they would like...be it cars or cameras or what have you. I can give an example of an adapter that is being made in Brazil called apefos (I think that's it). Even though this adapter is way cheaper than the others I didn't buy it because I was not happy with the quality of the images I've seen...BUT, I'm sure that in Brazil there are loads of people who cannot afford other solutions. So I fully endorse that such solutions exist and are available for all kinds of people. I see that many people here luckily never had to experience this type of reality, nor can fully understand it. Luckily I never hard any needs while I was living in Brazil, but all I needed to do was to take a walk to see how lucky I was. Does any of you have any idea how hard it is trying to make cinema in a third world country?
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I can't afford to buy the rights to a particular book, but since there's nothing "new under the sun" I can just go ahead and take what I want. After all, if I was wealthy and could afford it, it would be okay...right?

Because you can't afford it, doesn't make it right to steal it. (Here I'm talking more about using someone else's design to make YOU money...even though I'd have to say that using someone else's design for your own benefit isn't right either.) If you can't afford it, spend time doing your own research and come up with your own design...don't steal others'.

"Steal" may sound like a strong word, but tell me that that isn't how you'd feel if someone else took YOUR idea or design...
 
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That is exactly the type of commentary I would expect. It's pretty easy to type from a comfortable chair. Go live in third world country and in one year we can have this conversation again.
 
You look like you have some good ideas on your website. I can't think of anything as interesting... How about if I just take YOUR ideas and make money off them, I'm sure that'd be okay with you given your last post.
 
First of all, many thanks for the compliment.
Second of all, reckrock sells their DIY plans as do many people here at the forum. I've seen many DIY adapters being sold here over the years. Third, who knows if this adapter is a replica or not? I mean the sgpro looks like the M2 on the outside...is it a replica? No.
How about people who don't speak english in those countries and that didn't even know 35mm adapters existed until someone on their own country decided to bring it to them? Many people would never know about it. Did you know that the import tax in Brazil can go up to 70%? I'm not defending the people who are doing it, but I am saying there's a social reason why these type of things are simply bound to happen. Bit I look at it more on a scale of all those "nikee" or "reebook" (products) than intellectual theaft of a piece of art work (like the website example). It's like if a country doesn't have forks I would not expect them to exclusively buy forks from the only country in the world who manufactures forks...and lets face it, you can only improve so much on a fork's design and functionality....so, unless you make a fork bigger, or pink or with a strap that can be tied to your wrist you will be "stealing".
 
Blaine "mr. hollywood" where are the documents showing that the Redrock, Sgpro, Letus and Brevis are copy written? The movie tube has copyright documents freely on their site. Of course we know that the Indian products are not, but lets prove a point you're trying to make about copyright laws. There are threads and threads here and over at dvinfo about copyright laws, pertaining to this particular subject. Seeing how am not a lawyer and have very limited knowledge when it comes to copyright infringement, I won't get my feet too wet here. The only product I have seen that has any type of papers showing its owns the right to their product was Cine Dof with the leaf springs design.

This is a very relative conversation to begin with and it's mainly opinions.
 
rawfa said:
How about people who don't speak english in those countries and that didn't even know 35mm adapters existed until someone on their own country decided to bring it to them?
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Hehehe..

Rawfa, I agree with apefos and other third world arguments ( when I am travelling arround the world, I am aware, how happy I should be that I have passport, that don't have much trouble going anywhere )..

..but.. the said true is.. that those guys in India, don't want to sell things locally..

I don't know the reason why, but that fact brought some guy from India, who wanted to buy..

The another thing is direct copy.. Like it was said, M2 and SGpro uses the same working principle, but outside they look different..
They should designed "the bird cage" a little bit different, and it would be OK..

They screwed it out with the way they are sanding the disc.. ajajaj


Looks like somebody from our forum should take a trip to India and make the R&D for poor mans DOF adapter..

:costumed-smiley-047
 
Yeah, if the housing would look different we would not have that kind of conversation.

But you all will be happy now because the indians did what everybody wanted.

R & D

They made a new version with real glas and it is vibrating now plus they changed the housing and gave it a new support and brackets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Sell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Now it is the Indie... ahem Indian adapter and no Redrock/ P&S knock off and everybody will be happy now.

right?

Oh no, there is allready a German adapter with birdhouse design and vibrating GG.

Ahhhhrghh now it all starts again.

Frank
 
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