PAL vs NTSC ..... who can explain?

D

delaro

Well-known member
hello
i want to buy a PAL or NTSC HVX here in europe, but i've seen tons of footages everywhere for monthes and, even if a lot of people say that it's impossible to see any difference between 24p and 25p, i think i really prefer NTSC ones. IMO it looks more filmic. Am I crazy to see any difference? Do these differences exist? If so, who can explain what makes the different feeling between NTSC and PAL footages? The motion? The pixel ratio? (but even on HD footages it seem to be easy to recognize NTSC). The colors?
Does someone ever tried to shoot 24p and 25p with EX1, for example, to see the difference?
thanx to help me on this!
 
If you're in Europe and are going to be working primarily for European output, then you should get the European (PAL) version. It'll make your life easier.

But if you really, really, really want 24p instead of 25p, then the NTSC version will give you that.
 
David Jimerson said:
If you're in Europe and are going to be working primarily for European output, then you should get the European (PAL) version. It'll make your life easier.

But if you really, really, really want 24p instead of 25p, then the NTSC version will give you that.
Click to expand...

well, in europe every TV is both pal and ntsc. and anyway 70% of what we're seeing on tv are US movies or US music videos :) it seems that there is no problem for the diffusion. so i think that when there is something that must be broadcasted i just should go to my lab and they will transcode it, no?
How is it working for US music videos on PAL channels? do they transcode or just speed it up by 4% (speeding up the audio)?
but as i was saying, i really feel like ntsc footages are more filmic ....
 
ok some other questions :) ....
if i go from 25p to 24p in after effects, will i have the same feeling that if i shoot directly in 24p or is there something different, "embeded" in the footage during the shooting (like motion blur etc)?
is there really a 1/50 shutter on the ntsc hvx and will i be able to avoid fluorescent lights flickering in europe?
 
David Jimerson said:
If you're in Europe and are going to be working primarily for European output, then you should get the European (PAL) version. It'll make your life easier.

But if you really, really, really want 24p instead of 25p, then the NTSC version will give you that.
Click to expand...
Dear David
A lot of people make the mistake of calling H D cameras NTSC and Pal.These were analog terms that have been carried over to digital.The only dif is U.S has 60hz power supply hence 24,30 fps.and in countries with 50 hz 25 fps.There is no difference in color except if your viewing it through a NTSC or Pal (analog ) monitor.
But 24 or 25 fps you,ll have no probs copying back and fro.
The advantage of the U.S version HVX200 is the highest speed of 60 fps.Which the 50hz versions do not have.Great for slo-mo.
The other advantage is the 60 hz versions seem to be 20% cheaper.
 
The pal version gives you a slightly higher resolution in 1080 mode but only 50 frames/s maximum in 720. I bet you can't tell the difference from 24p to 25p....!
 
Hi,
I stumbled over this thread and found that people are discussing exactly what I wanted to ask. I will be shooting a short film in a PAL region (Asia - India and Nepal) for the next three months from march onwards. I need to know should I go for the PAL or the NTSC version. My final product will be DVD and might be used for TV in Indian channels. I am at present in US and want to buy HVX as soon as possible so that I can start my project.

People, seriously guide me which version PAL or NTSC to buy? I know the NTSC version comes for a $200-300 less - but is it worth? as we spend some more dollars to get some pulldown removal s/w like dvmaker for the NTSC model.
so it is the case that eventually both the version cost the same..

whatever be the case All i want to know
1) which one of the version would make my life easy
2) and which one will give me a better looking footage?

any help in clearing my confusion will be greatly appreciated.

thanks
-Vivek
 
response for vrbhu

response for vrbhu

Hello, It all depends where you will be editing. If you shoot in Asia, but edit in the US, then you will be covered by NTSC. However as there are so many variables in the post production process, it is really this environment which dictates the answer to PAL vs. NTSC. Of course if this will primarily then be broadcast in PAL in Asia, that too will need to be taken into consideration. Two things though: the difference in price is often considerable, PAL is usually AT LEAST %20 more expensive (often far more), and also many people seem to feel that scaling down from 25p to 24p is in theory better qualitatively than scaling up. The reality is that the difference is slight. Once again your post production environment is what should dictate your choice. Best of luck.
 
Thanks for your reply.
I would be editing in Asia, but as I said I want to distribute is all the US film festivals as well as try to sell it to Asian TV channels...
Guys, i think every PAL potential user has this confusion..please pour in your
facts, suggestions, advise..
this could help a lot of people like me...

This is a lot of money for me($5000-$6000)..so I just want to make sure that I am taking the right step...and with people of dvxuser with me I know my decision would be a knowledgeable one...

thanks
Vivek
 
reticulan5 said:
Dear David
A lot of people make the mistake of calling H D cameras NTSC and Pal.These were analog terms that have been carried over to digital.The only dif is U.S has 60hz power supply hence 24,30 fps.and in countries with 50 hz 25 fps.There is no difference in color except if your viewing it through a NTSC or Pal (analog ) monitor.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of that. He was asking specifically about which version of the HVX to have while in Europe, and particularly about using 24p.

There are two base versions of the HVX, one PAL-based, and one NTSC-based. He was asking his question based on the television standard, and he didn't limit it to HD. You can rest assured that common shorthand for the version of the HVX is "the PAL version" and "the NTSC version." There are more than one model number for each version.

I thought about adding all of the stuff you mention above, but that would have over-answered the question and it might have been too confusing for someone new to the topic.
 
Now one more new information I am getting: with the PAL version panasonic does not give the P2 card free...God what kind of discrimination is this?

-now the decision is becoming more and more difficult..:(
 
The problem with PAL is price. Since HD PAL has the same picture resolution as HD NTSC (unlike SD), there's probably not much of an advantage to PAL. My first HD cam will be NTSC.
 
vrbhu said:
Now one more new information I am getting: with the PAL version panasonic does not give the P2 card free...God what kind of discrimination is this?

-now the decision is becoming more and more difficult..:(
Click to expand...

The free card is a promotion done by Panasonic USA only. It's not a matter of it being PAL or NTSC; no other NTSC region (I don't think) is doing the promotion, either.
 
so here is the thing..i i buy a NTSC model and do my editing on a 24P timeline and while editing i can choose to make it PAL or NTSC depending on my destination ..will that make a difference? i mean will be it difficult to make PAL DVD from my 24P timeline?
 
It's not overly difficult, but it's more complicated or less complicated depending on the software you're using. I'd ask for an overview of what needs to be done in the forum specific to your editing software.

But if you're looking for easiest, then you want 25p.
 
I agree with you David..the easiest will be PAL ..but I want to save some money (in this case almost $1000+ ) so that i can use that to some other things..
i would be using premiere pro...but can change to FCP if on that this workflow would be easy..
please suggest..
 
In terms of going to PAL DVD from 24p, it's about the same either way.

But Premiere Pro CS3 natively accepts the MXF files from the P2 card; FCP needs to re-wrap them into Quicktime and make duplicate files. There's no reason for you to switch.
 
I would say that if your'e in PAL land, and your'e editing in PAL land, and making PAL DVDs the for heaven's sake buy a PAL HVX, and get 1440 lines horizontal res rather than the 1200 odd from NTSC.
Just my opinion,
Dave
 
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