film school necessary?

J.R. Hudson said:
Knowing how to netowrk and market oneself and being introverted are not one in the same.
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? Did I say they were? An introvert isnt someone who would market themselves or know how to network.

Introvert
1. reserved person: a shy person who tends not to socialize much
2. psychology somebody interested in own self: somebody who tends to be more interested in his or her own feelings and thoughts than in other people and the outside world
 
Luis Caffesse said:
I think his point is there is no reason why positions at that level can't be had while you're still in school.

Many people do nothing more than study while they're in school - then when they graduate they think - great, now what? Many times they wind up taking entry level positions which they possibly could have had without going to school at all, which leaves alot of people feeling as though maybe they wasted their time and money going to filmschool in the first place (which is essentially the entire disucssion going on in this thread).

If someone goes to school - but does a good job of remembering that they will, someday soon, be out in 'the real world' - and works to get some PA jobs and internships under their belt before they have that diploma, then they can be in a much better position once they graduate.
At the end of it all they will have no only a film degree, but also a resume of 'real world' experience.

That's all I think he was saying - I didn't really see anything controversial about it.
Well, except maybe the phrase "introverted art freak"
:)
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There is no way to avoid starting out at the bottom in this business. Networking only gets you a foot in the door. It does not get you a job.

Even if you know the show runner on a prime-time network television show, you are still going to start off at the production assistant level. There is no way to avoid that, because you are only as important as the work that you have done.
 
agcohn said:
There is no way to avoid starting out at the bottom in this business. Networking only gets you a foot in the door. It does not get you a job.

Even if you know the show runner on a prime-time network television show, you are still going to start off at the production assistant level. There is no way to avoid that, because you are only as important as the work that you have done.
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Not sure why you quoted my comments as though you were refuting something I said.... but I couldn't agree with you more. Which is exactly why it's probably a good idea to start at the bottom while you're still in school instead of waiting until you get out.
 
pdsage10 said:
? Did I say they were? An introvert isnt someone who would market themselves or know how to network.

Introvert
1. reserved person: a shy person who tends not to socialize much
2. psychology somebody interested in own self: somebody who tends to be more interested in his or her own feelings and thoughts than in other people and the outside world
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You in fact said:

"I am sure that there are plenty of graduates out there who are working as PA's, but thats just becasue they are most likely introverts. "

Most likely, they probably don't know about networking. - And yes, Paul, I think we know what an introvert is.


agcohn said:
There is no way to avoid starting out at the bottom in this business. Networking only gets you a foot in the door. It does not get you a job.

Even if you know the show runner on a prime-time network television show, you are still going to start off at the production assistant level. There is no way to avoid that, because you are only as important as the work that you have done.
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This has been what I have perceived as true.
 
pdsage10 said:
Exactly, once you become a junior you are allowed to work as an intern for credit. Do your PA work for those two years, not after you graduate. This is why it is important to go to a school that has good industry contacts, they can place you in internships that would be almost impossible to get unless you were a student of that particular school.
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That's completely irrelevant. Whether you do it sooner or later, you are still starting off as a production assistant or unpaid intern.

What kind of shows are you talking about? Low budget indie features? There is no point in going to college if you just plan on working on low budget features.
 
J.R. Hudson said:
You in fact said:

"I am sure that there are plenty of graduates out there who are working as PA's, but thats just becasue they are most likely introverts. "

Most likely, they probably don't know about networking. - And yes, Paul, I think we know what an introvert is.
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So I am still not sure what you are getting at. Yes, introverts dont know how to network and how is this different from what I stated?
 
I'm getting at:

Being intorverted and knowing how to execute successful networking techniques to further one's career are not one in the same. (Again.)

It's knowing how to market oneself and pursue opportunity. Even then, I don't know which Film Schools grads are starting off as Production Coordinators.
 
agcohn said:
That's completely irrelevant. Whether you do it sooner or later, you are still starting off as a production assistant or unpaid intern.

What kind of shows are you talking about? Low budget indie features? There is no point in going to college if you just plan on working on low budget features.
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Yes, you will start off as a PA no matter what, but where you start off is what matters. Read my full post.

Low budget indie features? What are you talking about? I doubt USC, UCLA, NYU is going to help you get placed as an intern on a low budget indie feature.
 
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Now you're spreading this into two different topics Sage

Being placed as an intern by the university has nothing to do with networking with your peers, does it ?
 
Okay - to be fair, in his original post he made two suggestions (as far as I can tell)

1. You should network while in school
2. You should get internships while in school

Two seperate suggestions, and two conversations have split off from those points since then, which may be why there is some confusion here.

His original post said - as far as I understood it -
You should network, you should NOT be an introvert.

I really don't see where the controversy is here?
 
J.R. Hudson said:
Now you're spreading this into two different topics Sage

Being placed as an intern by the university has nothing to do with networking with your peers, does it ?
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Networking with your peers has to do with starting relationships and making contacts that you will be able to call on in the future.
Also, Juniors and Seniors could potentially intern with multiple companies during their last two years of college, during this time is when networking skills come into play.
 
No controversey Luis

The only thing I have reservations on is his generalizing the relationship between extroverted and networking; there is no relation.

Now I'm just concerned about any toodage that may start surfacing.

Ka Chaw !
 
J.R. Hudson said:
No controversey Luis

The only thing I have reservations on is his generalizing the relationship between extroverted and networking; there is no relation.

Now I'm just concerned about any toodage that may start surfacing.

Ka Chaw !
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You will understand why I was confused if you read your earlier posts. You kept saying introverted, instead of extroverted. Now I understand what you were trying to say.
I would have to disagree with you, being extroverted would definitly assist you in networking. Being able to present yourself professionally and hold a conversation with a complete stranger is a skill that most extroverts have. Although it is not the only factor, it is a great help.
 
There's a whole spectrum of introvertedness. As someone who is fairly introverted, I can tell you that I still network and socialize because I know the value of it. So you can be introverted and establish connections probably as well as a 'typical' extrovert. But I think it does require much more thought and effort, and is certainly less comfortable for an introvert, than for a typical extrovert.
 
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J.R. Hudson said:
The only thing I have reservations on is his generalizing the relationship between extroverted and networking; there is no relation.
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Actually I'd be tempted to say there is.

Extroverted people will be more likely to talk to those they don't know which leads them to meet more people. Seeing as networking is all about getting to know others in your industry - doesn't seem like a stretch to say that introverted people will not network as much as extroverted people.

Personally that is something I think I've sufferred from for quite a while.
I think I could probably get alot more work if I actually made the effort to be more social with other industry folk.

Now I'm just concerned about any toodage that may start surfacing.
Ka Chaw !
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Nothing to worry about here.
:thumbsup:
 
That, ladies and gentlemen, is what my point is.

Thanks Dan.

It's a skill, not a nature.

Yes Paul, being extroverted helps immensely; personality, the gab, the panache ....

But knowing what to do with it is what matters.

I'm an extrovert; it took me sometime to realize the value of socializing to move forward (Network)

-

Need a beer now.
 
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