Dice-K Has More October RBI Than Jeter or A-Rod

The hatred for A-rod is tough to quantify up here. he really is reviled. Part of the joy of being a Sox fan has been booing A-rod and then watching him inevitable choke. There was a period of several games here when a ground ball went straight through his legs.

There is no chance we are signing him. The plan for the Sox before Lowell had the best contract year in the history of the sport, was to move Youkilis over to third and pick up a top free agent at first.

Now, and no one is complaining, Lowell will be offered probably something in the 3 year 33 million range. Sadly, since the Yankees are now looking for a third baseman, there is a chance they will overpay for him. I would say he only needs to look to Johnny Damon to know what he should do. Johnny Damon is dead to the town of Boston, his legacy ruined, he plays for a disaster of a front office and a team filled with cold hired guns.

If the offer is fair, not the best, Lowell should take it. He has entered the Boston pantheon and he should stay there.
 
Good post bosindy. Lowell said right after the WS win that he was happy in Boston and would like to stay. I have a hunch he will.
 
As a die hard Yankee fan who grew up in the Bronx before moving to NC and who watched 155 regular season games (between being in the stands, watching on DirecTv, listening on XM, & or catching up on DVR) I have tried really hard to avoid this thread (My girlfriend and I did the math... if we just say that each game, not including the pregame on YES or postgame on YES is 3 hours, which is a really short Yankee game that is 19 complete days, not including pre or post game... completely pathetic to be this obsessed).

I keep debating whether to say something about ARod opting out, the $52 millilon posting for Dice-K, the production of brilliant free agent signings (such as Clement and Pavano) by both clubs, or the fact that my childhood hero (Mattingly) will be wearing another uniform for the first time in his adult life.

Rather than to go off on a rant which my girlfriend, friends, family, coworkers, and random strangers have been forced to experience for the last, well, 30 years... I will simply say that good pitching will stop good hitting and this year the Red Sox had the best pitcher in baseball, the best bullpen in baseball, and quality players surrounding them. The 3-4 combination of Ortiz and Ramierez is as deadly as Canseco/McQuire, Bonds/Bonilla, Mantle/Marris, Gehrig/Ruth and will go down in history as such.

I hate the Red Sox and 2004 still rings as one of the most painful experiences in my life.

That being said, congrats on the world series win...
 
Jeremy Ordan said:
I hate the Red Sox and 2004 still rings as one of the most painful experiences in my life.
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Well, you've now tasted a fraction of the pain RedSox fans and players felt like for decades. Imagine your Yankees not winning another WS until the year 2086, and having several seasons like 2004 along the way.

I'd be more sympathetic to your honest post, but I am well aware of all the Yankees fans that ridiculed and humiliated RedSox fans for years on end about their curse and how cruel, mean, and nasty so many of them were about it.
 
I think that there are several schools of Yankee fans, something I am forced to elaborate on every single time a baseball conversation comes up. There are the die hard fans who know the team, the history, and live and die on every single game.

Then there are the morons.

There are at least 10,000 morons to every fan.

Here's the difference. The morons boo'd ARod whereas the true fans exhaled when he struck out. We wanted to chear but when he would strike out we were 'awww' or more graphically groaning.

I won't continue with that line of thoughts because I could go on for weeks about ARod and my town opinion of him.

The important thing, 2004 sucks because we thought we had it in the bag. I remember telling people that no team has ever come back and it wasn't even a thought until Damon's grand slam that we could lose. It wasn't a possibility. The embarrasment comes from who it happened against. That was salt in the wound and still hurts (especially given that two of my best friends are die hard Red Sox fans).

Just like when 2005 started and the Yankees stood to watch the Red Sox get their championship rings I can stand and say that you were the best team in baseball and deserved to win (I completely disagree with your assessment of Dice-K being a premier pitcher, but that is for another thread). I can even go so far to say that when the Lowell & Beckett trade happened I laughed my ass off thinking Beckett was used up and Lowell was way past his prime... I was wrong on that one (not by 2006 when Beckett gave up a ton of long balls) in 2007.

So... yeah...

Damnit, it still freaking sucks (not to mention that press conference Girardi did was a complete joke and I disagree with the signing of him)
 
I don't think I said Dice-K was a premier pitcher. Just that he was worth what they paid him as he performed in the clutch, and the merchandising money must be enormous. He's not on the level of Beckett, or Santana if that's what you mean. No.

You know what's funny, I'm not a huge RedSox fan. I like the Sox, but I wanted the Rockies. The teams I like tend to be on the West coast (Mariners, A's, D-backs. Kind of like the Padres, and Angels. Hate Bonds, but SF is okay, Dodgers are iffy). It's just that I got really sick of all the smug, arrogant attitude of so many Yankess fans, it's just a pure joy to watch them suffer.
 
Blaine said:
And now Torre is the new manager of the Dodgers. Is Donnie Baseball next?:evil:
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That was just painful... but it shows, these Steinbrenner kids have no idea how to run an organization.

Why do I say this?

Every person I have ever met who had parents who were loaded were complete morons... then again, I could just be making an assumption.
 
Jeremy is definatley not the Moron variety of a Yankee fan, but Yankee fans as a whole are the most obnoxious I have ever met.

It feels good to see the Yankees falling on their faces the last few years.

2004 have made the Red Sox and thier fans different. They believe.

Passion -vs- Payroll
 
J.R. Hudson said:
Jeremy is definatley not the Moron variety of a Yankee fan, but Yankee fans as a whole are the most obnoxious I have ever met.
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Thank you for that, and I completely agree. I travel from NC to NY at least 4-5 times a year for games, plus the trips to Tampa or Baltimore to see my team (Yankees baseball was the religion in my house growing up). That being said, for average seats at Yankee Stadium I paid over $200 multiple times this season because going to a Yankee game has become a fashion statement. While I still consider Yankee fans, or true Yankee fans, to be some of the most inteligent baseball fans in all of baseball (I include Red Sox fans with this bunch), there are a ton of Yankee fans who know nothing about the game.

That being said, I have met a ton of Red Sox fans who know nothing about their team, let alone the sport of baseball. Red Sox nation is huge, and therefore, with that popularity you get a ton of people who pick the Sox as their team even though they know nothing about baseball.

Personally I believe that if you cannot name ever person on the 25 man roster, all the coaches, plus your top 10 prospects in the organization then you have no right calling yourself a fan.

That being said, I AM SICK!

I literally live Yankee baseball and it's not healthy... I spent more than 19 complete days watching games this season, my dogs are named after Yankees [I have a Torre who is a Carolina Dingo and my poodle Yogi passed away last Thanksgiving].

It is not a healthy obsession (but my girlfriend is supportive and enjoys watching Jeter, although I'm convinced he is gay)


J.R. Hudson said:
Passion -vs- Payroll
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The Red Sox had the second highest payroll in all of baseball and that doesn't include the signing bonus for Dice-K not to mention the performance bonus clauses that are involved in contracts.

That being said, and for as much validity as there is within the Yankee hired gun philosophy, this small market team concept is just not accurate. The Red Sox had the highest road attendence (and if the home ball park was bigger than a minor league stadium then they would have had the highest home attendence), and it isn't like the Red Sox had more home grown talent on the field than the Yankees did, in fact they had less (if you count the bullpen, position players/starter wise the Yankees had 4: Jeter, Posada, Cabrera, Cano and the Red Sox had, if I'm not mistaken, Elsbury, Youkalis, Pedroia).

In 1996 & 1997 the Yankees did not have the largest payroll in baseball, something Joe Buck, who I hate, seems to forget whenever he slams the Yankees. The Orioles had the largest payroll.

That being said, I literally could, and have had, this conversation all day. In some places you have several seasons, for me there is baseball season and hot stove season. Thus far, hot stove season has made me sick.



One more bone for Red Sox fans... Pedroia... that kid can field. Hell of a glove and unlike my homegrown second baseman, he isn't cocky with his 'o-lay' plays. Cano is great, but that Pedroia kid is a fiesty little sonofa....
 
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The real question is who is going to trade for Santana this year and lock him into a long term deal. What would you give up for him? I heard someone mention for Boston to give up Lester Buckholtz and Crisp. Tough call.

A note on Pedroia when he was in college at Arizona (or state) He gave up his scholarship because the team was vying for a championship and they needed to recruit pitching. when Arizona made it to the championship, they wore DP on their uniforms. Gammons contrasted that with the A-rod announcement story.

As for Boston and New York fans, there are morons on both sides and I have seen it up close.
 
Hot magma said:
I love how the Yankees are still in the Red Sox fans heads.
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Yeah, but at least it's vice-versa now.
Every person I have ever met who had parents who were loaded were complete morons...
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How did Paris Hilton enter this discussion?!:Drogar-BlackEye(DBG

As to some other players. I think there's a good chance Bonds will end up in pinstripes next year. The Giants can barely afford him, he's got maybe 1 year left, and the Yankees just dumped ARod's pay, which allows them plenty of cash. Plus Barry could just be DH, and only play 140 games or so. And he's still a serious threat with the bat. People boo him wherever he goes, so Yankee Stadium wouldn't be an issue, especially as he wouldn't be in the field.

I don't see the Sox trading away those guys to get Santana (who has another year on his Minnesota contract). But one never knows. With Loriano expected back with a full recovery, dumping Santana may or may not make sense, depending on who you talk to. The Sox giving up on Buckholz sounds like a mistake. They'll lose Schilling almost for certain, but if Clement is somehow healthy, and can somehow pitch, they won't need another starter. But those are big if's. Santana is also a lefty, and the Sox already have Lester.

Speaking of Schilling, if Randy Johnson can somehow pitch next year, I think Curt will sign with the Diamondbacks. It would be a great way for them both to close out their careers. He could go to Philadelphia, or Colorado as well.

Lost in all this discussion is that both Posada and Rivera opted out for free agency. Both are getting older, but both are still great and I think it would hurt the Yankees more than losing Arod to lose these guys.

Let's all hope that the A's don't lose more players this coming year, and can get a hitter or two. More than any other team the A's have lost great players over the last several years this way, simply because they couldn't afford them. Giambi, Tejada, Zito, Damon, Dye, Hudson, Mulder, Lidle, Lilly...

I agree and have said before that the Sox giant payroll doesn't help baseball either, making them "Evil Empire Lite" in some ways. I'm not for a salary cap, but I think MLB needs a higher luxury tax, and better revenue sharing. Even George Steinbrenner said he's not against revenue sharing, as long as he's certain the extra money he pays goes into promoting baseball and that other clubs can't just hoard the money.
 
The Red Sox did have the 2nd highest payroll; with a close $47,000,000 behind the Yanks. :lipsrseal :cheesy:
 
snowleopard said:
I don't see the Sox trading away those guys to get Santana (who has another year on his Minnesota contract). But one never knows. With Loriano expected back with a full recovery, dumping Santana may or may not make sense, depending on who you talk to. The Sox giving up on Buckholz sounds like a mistake. They'll lose Schilling almost for certain, but if Clement is somehow healthy, and can somehow pitch, they won't need another starter. But those are big if's. Santana is also a lefty, and the Sox already have Lester.
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The twin need to move santana while they can still get value for him and they are not close to winning a championship with just him. they can't sign him next year during free agency so they are going to trade him and try to get fair value. Only about 6 or 7 teams can afford him and the Sox and Yankees are going to be aggressive. Santana will then sign a new contract with that team and forgoe free agency next year.

Clement is a free agent and won't probably be back in a red sox uniform. Now if you could have Beckett, Santana, Dice K, Shilling and Wakefield as your starting 5, it may be worth giving up Lester and Buckholtz. Crisp is gone regardless.
 
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A couple of years ago everyone talked about giving up prospects in order to get Dontrell Willis, who has seen his value just drop as time goes on. Santana is interesting because he is one of the best, if not, THE BEST, pitchers in the game (let's see what Beckett does next year)... I would be afraid to give up too much young pitching for him though. It comes back to economics. Young pitching, like Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain (all Yankees) or Buckholtz and Lester are CHEAP. These players make around $400,000 a year. The tax on Santanas contract is going to be more than that.

Once Barry Zito signed that massive contract a new benchmark was set for pitchers, and Santana is going to get the most money he can.

Regarding the Barry Bonds issue... No way will he be a Yankee. The Yankees already have Giambi and Damon who are going to be fighting for time at the DH spot, plus they need to either trade or work Duncan into the lineup.

A team like KC is where Barry needs to go.

bosindy said:
Clement is a free agent and won't probaly not be back in a red sox uniform. Now if you could have Beckett, Santana, Dice K, Shilling and Wakefield as your starting 5, it may be worth giving up Lester and Buckholtz. Crisp is gone regardless.
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While I agree that Crisp is going because Elsbury is certainly looking like a solid leadoff or #2 candidate who can play the field great, I completely disagree with how your rotation is looking next year.

I think Wakefield (who by the way is one of my favorite pitchers, even though he is a Sox pitcher, because he's a master of a dead art, the knuckleball) might be done. That back caused a lot of problems and the fact that you really need Mirabelli to catch him, not to mention he's just beat up... that causes some issues.

Dice-K, Beckett... no problem there

Now Schilling? Recent history shows us that the Red Sox don't do good will contracts, so they might let him walk... I think he has a year left and while teams like TB smack him around, no one gets it up for big games like him.

Lester is trade bait... I just don't see you keeping him, although I picked him for comeback player of the year before the season started.

I need to stop paying attention to Red Sox stuff and to more Yankee stuff
 
I think Wake will be back. The 4 million mutual option to infinity makes him cheap. He had 17 wins and could of had 20 with run support. The back issue concerned me, but he is already talking about playing golf and I don't think it is as serious as reported. I think if the back feels okay he will be. The maribelli issue is duly noted and we'll see if they resign him.

I thought originally it was 50-50 that they were signing Shilling, now I think it is less likely. Supposedly he is pissing off the front office with the circus he is creating with the blog and comments. I wouldn't be surprised if they offer him less than Beckett is due to make (9.5 not the 13 he is asking) and give the excuse for Shilling to walk. He doesn't have a full season in him, but he is good for maybe 12 wins. Philly maybe?

Lester will be tough to trade because of the cancer/comeback story. Boston is in Love. something as big as Santana has to happen to justify it.

I don't know how I feel about the Santana trade I brought up. I like Lester and Buckholtz. Santana is in a class by himself other than Beckett. But I agree about liking young good cheap arms.

I don't think The Yankees are in the trouble people think. They have good young arms but they do need to sign Posada and Rivera. I also agree Bonds in no way a Yankee, although it would give me great personal pleasure if he was.
 
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