should the 24p on HV20 just be called "ghost patrol"?

[c.g._eads]

shot my first footage on the HV20. The camera is quite amazing and I'm glad I bought it. Despite my fears of the "rolling shutter" that I had mentioned in other threads, I think the overall quality of the image is amazing for the price. It does have that wobble problem, but it's not as bad as I had feared. It is there though, for those who are thinking of buying the camera.

On to my question. Straight out of the box, I turned the camera onto 24pf mode (I guess the "f" is so Panasonic doesn't sue them?) and shot some footage and I felt like the 24pf effect just made all movement "ghosty". Someone would walk and leave a stuttery trail behind them. It wasn't the "cinema-like" image I had hoped for. Is this something that can be fixed with the "shutter" option? Like I said, this is what happened straight out of the box, so I don't know what the factory shutter is set to. But do people know what I'm talking about? And is this just what "faux 24 frames" looks like?

I know it would be best to show you some footage, but I don't even know if my computer can handle HDV since I've never tried it before. I know I need an upgrade with premeire before I can edit. So it might be awhile before I can post some footage (I did get some great footage btw).

Anyway, thanks for listening.

Chris

 

[TimurCivan]

is there a NR feature like the A1. cause the Noisereducer is across many frames. it may be compensating for noise.

 

[Kevin Dorsey]

I would use the Tv mode and lock the shutter in at 1/48. When I first got the camera I noticed the same thing, even in what I would call decent lighting, the cam would dip down to 1/24 shutter and the images would be a bit blurry. After the first day I don't think I've shot anything but Tv mode.
-Kevin

 

[vsansal]

Using the exposure lock it is possible to set the camcorder's shutter at 1/48 in any setting. Just look at Barry's great article to get more information about how to control exposure.

 

[24Peter]

Yeah just shoot at 1/48th in Tv mode and all your ghosts will be exorcised...

 

[c.g._eads]

sure, but what if you want a cinematic look? That 24 frames per second? That's one of the reasons I bought the camera. Is that mode worthless?

p.s. where is Barry's article about the hv20?

 

[propellerhead]

sure, but what if you want a cinematic look? That 24 frames per second? That's one of the reasons I bought the camera. Is that mode worthless?

p.s. where is Barry's article about the hv20?

1/48th of a second is a traditional 180 degree 24fps shutter. the "cinematic look" is up to you.

 

[Huy Vu]

You're confusing shutter speed with frame rate. The HV20 have a true 24p mode and the default shutter for 24fps is 1/48. The camera doesn't have manual shutter and iris control though so when you change exposure it's also lowering the shutter speed to let in more light causing the ghosting.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

so when you change exposure it's also lowering the shutter speed to let in more light causing the ghosting.

Huh ?

---

Does this camera need to be rendered back out adding a pulldown ?

 

[skinnyboy]

All those with questions in this thread ought to go to the HV20 front page and read the sticky at the top.
Especially Barry Green's article...

Peace

 

[Huy Vu]

Huh ?

---

Does this camera need to be rendered back out adding a pulldown ?

The choice is either to control the shutter or set the iris manually, you can't do both. The HV20, like most consumer cam, has an exposure bar that you can increase or decrease. Increasing exposure can cause the camera to automatically lower shutter speed to bring in more light, which can cause the ghosting effect that he saw.

 

[Cranky]

The choice is either to control the shutter or set the iris manually, you can't do both. The HV20, like most consumer cam, has an exposure bar that you can increase or decrease. Increasing exposure can cause the camera to automatically lower shutter speed to bring in more light, which can cause the ghosting effect that he saw.

Have you read the sticky? You CAN control both shutter speed and aperture, just switch to Tv mode, lock exposure using EXP control and check current aperture with "photo" button. Then you can adjust aperture with EXP slider. True, you are not able to choose an f-stop directly, but you are able to lock aperture, then increase/decrease it and then read actual f-stop value. Two steps instead of one, but the end result is the same: you CAN set and lock shutter speed and aperture on HV10/HV20, as well as on many other Canon consumer-grade camcorders, including Eluras and DCxxx.


---

Michael, Canon Elura User Pages

 

[c.g._eads]

I can't even get to the HV20 forum easily. The only way for me to get there is to do a search for 'HV20' and in the search it gives me an option to go to that forum. If i just look in "other cameras", for some reason it doesn't have the HV20 as an option. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[Huy Vu]

Have you read the sticky? You CAN control both shutter speed and aperture, just switch to Tv mode, lock exposure using EXP control and check current aperture with "photo" button. Then you can adjust aperture with EXP slider. True, you are not able to choose an f-stop directly, but you are able to lock aperture, then increase/decrease it and then read actual f-stop value. Two steps instead of one, but the end result is the same: you CAN set and lock shutter speed and aperture on HV10/HV20, as well as on many other Canon consumer-grade camcorders, including Eluras and DCxxx.

Michael, Canon Elura User Pages

Of course I'm aware that there's a work around for it, but does the OP know that? My point is that without the workaround you can only control one or the other and I'm simply pointing out what the exposure control actually does.

 

[Cranky]

My point is that without the workaround you can only control one or the other and I'm simply pointing out what the exposure control actually does.

The workaround does not cost money, there is no firmware to update, it is there for you for free. Therefor I don't understand what do you mean by "without the workaround", because every HV20 sort of comes WITH it. The workaround is just a matter or pressing one button.

You said: "The choice is either to control the shutter or set the iris manually, you can't do both. The HV20, like most consumer cam, has an exposure bar that you can increase or decrease. Increasing exposure can cause the camera to automatically lower shutter speed to bring in more light."

Obviously, your first statement is false because you CAN do both, does not matter that you need to use a workaround, but you CAN.

Your note about exposure bar is also false as a blanket statement. It is true only for generic P mode or easy mode, but is not true for Tv mode, in which shutter speed is locked, and EXP bar controls only aperture and gain.

 

[Huy Vu]

Obviously, your first statement is false because you CAN do both, does not matter that you need to use a workaround, but you CAN.

You're arguing semantics here. That's like saying that even though we don't yet know how to cure cancer, there IS a way to cure it, and so we CAN cure cancer.

And yes, not only did I read the sticky, I've read Barry's detailed article of how to do it and it is NOT simply the matter of pressing a button. There's extensive calibration needed and a constant light source in order for it to work.

Here's an indisputable statement: Canon did not allow you to control the iris and the shutter on the HV20 at the same time. Whatever work around or modification that people found out after doesn't have anything to do with it. The DVX can be modified to shoot HD, so is is correct to say that Panasonic made an HD camera? XBOX can be modified to act as a personal computer, so can you call it one?

My point is that users such as the original posters who are not aware of the workaround has only the option of controlling either the iris or the shutter. And I know for a fact that changing the exposure bar changes one of four variables: iris, shutter, gain and ND filter. Now obviously the HV20 doesn't offer you manual control of all of these and the OP may have inadvertently lower the shutterspeed.