Pansonic Customer Service - A Camera Odyssey
- Thread starter Luis Caffesse
- Start date
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
Thats a good point- my Serial ends in 00572. I'll do some controlled testing later tonight / tomorrow morning and post up some grabs.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
That's an interesting idea.
I actually only have 1 of the 3 with me now.
The Loaner went out with my business partner this afternoon, and the other one went back to the company I'm working with (because they need to send it back to Panasonic for a whole other issue - audio problems, long story which probably deserves its own thread at some point).
I'll call my partner tomorrow and get the serial numbers on those and check.
I know that 1 of the cameras is out of warranty, and that my camera was just purchased in February. Not sure how old the loaner camera is....
But, my guess is they aren't that close together.
At least I know two of them are about 7 to 8 months apart (from when they were purchased anyhow).
While I do find this whole thing very troublesome - I still think its too early to jump to conclusions that this is some sort of pandemic HVX issue.
Clearly it seems there are many people out there that aren't noticing any problems, otherwise we would have heard about this already.
Right?
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Barry_Green
Moderator
I think the serial numbers re-set per month, don't they? The first character in the serial number is the month it was manufactured (A=Jan, L=Dec) and the second character is the year (6=2006, 7=2007), and then the numbers are the number of which particular unit that one was in that month.
So L500341 is not the unit that was manufactured right before E700342; instead it was manufactured 18 months earlier... so if you want to match up serial numbers, the first two characters would need to match too.
So L500341 is not the unit that was manufactured right before E700342; instead it was manufactured 18 months earlier... so if you want to match up serial numbers, the first two characters would need to match too.
Alex DePew
Señor Schmarty Pants
Which there is a lot of since you are a wookie. It's past the time to be nice. It's time to go nuts on their arses. Why don't you see if Jan can take a flamethrower to help get things working?
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Things are moving along - I don't think I'm getting the 'run around'
I have a feeling that this will be resolved once I speak to this other engineer tomorrow.
Many people have told me to contact Jan to get things done.
Just for the record - she's been CC'd on every email this week, so she's in the loop on this.
I didn't want anyone to think she was ignoring this - just trying to stay away from mentioning too many names. But since her name keeps coming up - figured I should mention it.
Edited to Add:
I just found out that Jan has been out of town this week (not sure when she's returning), so she has probably not seen any of the communication that she's been CC'd on this week. So, that explains why she hasn't chimed in directly.
I have a feeling that this will be resolved once I speak to this other engineer tomorrow.
Many people have told me to contact Jan to get things done.
Just for the record - she's been CC'd on every email this week, so she's in the loop on this.
I didn't want anyone to think she was ignoring this - just trying to stay away from mentioning too many names. But since her name keeps coming up - figured I should mention it.
Edited to Add:
I just found out that Jan has been out of town this week (not sure when she's returning), so she has probably not seen any of the communication that she's been CC'd on this week. So, that explains why she hasn't chimed in directly.
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Luis Caffesse
Admin
UPDATE -
So I called the second Engineer yesterday that I was referred to (the 'high end camera' guy), and left a message. I also sent him an email.
When I didn't hear back from him this morning I figured I would call and see if I could catch him (it was about 11am my time, and he's on the east coast). I figured giving him the first half of the day was fair.
His voicemail greeting now says that he'll be out of the office until Thursday August 9th.
I realize this is a string of 'bad timing' things that are out of people's control - but this now makes two people in a row. He did mention on his greeting that he will be checking his messages (he's out of the office on business). So, I left a message asking him to get in touch with me today.
We'll see.
So I called the second Engineer yesterday that I was referred to (the 'high end camera' guy), and left a message. I also sent him an email.
When I didn't hear back from him this morning I figured I would call and see if I could catch him (it was about 11am my time, and he's on the east coast). I figured giving him the first half of the day was fair.
His voicemail greeting now says that he'll be out of the office until Thursday August 9th.
I realize this is a string of 'bad timing' things that are out of people's control - but this now makes two people in a row. He did mention on his greeting that he will be checking his messages (he's out of the office on business). So, I left a message asking him to get in touch with me today.
We'll see.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
So I did some controled testing this morning and you can download the tests here:
http://www.235studios.com/WhiteShading.zip (14MB) I tried different resolutions 720p / 1080p. I tried different exposure settings - f3.4 - f5.6. I tried different zoom settings- Z00 & Z99. Hopefully this is helpful to you.
The setup included a white board with a black X that was made out of black paper tape. It was lit by a 500 watt soft box, with no additional outside light.
http://www.235studios.com/WhiteShading.zip (14MB) I tried different resolutions 720p / 1080p. I tried different exposure settings - f3.4 - f5.6. I tried different zoom settings- Z00 & Z99. Hopefully this is helpful to you.
The setup included a white board with a black X that was made out of black paper tape. It was lit by a 500 watt soft box, with no additional outside light.
Batutta
Major Contributor
Ah, the hell of Customer Service, which just happens to be the subject of my wife's short film (shot on the DVX)--
http://www.pixultronik.com/cstrailer.mov
http://www.pixultronik.com/cstrailer.mov
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Ryan - Thanks for taking the time to do that. I know it's a pain.
I hate to say it, but checking out your grabs in FCP and looking at the scopes - it looks like you exposed much brighter than I did - and many of those grabs are hitting 100 IRE, so it's going to hide the cast much more (if there is one) due to the overexposure.
In fact, it looks like all of them hit 100 at some point in the frame.
I was going to post a 4 way comparission - with the 3 cams I tested and yours - but I don't want to give the wrong impression.
But I will say that looking at your grabs, my initial reaction is that you don't have much to worry about. The images seem pretty clean - though if you do any more testing I would suggest setting your zebras to 80, and exposing for that (just open up the lens until you see the zebras then stop down just a bit so that you'll be getting an exposure between 70-80 IRE.
I hate to say it, but checking out your grabs in FCP and looking at the scopes - it looks like you exposed much brighter than I did - and many of those grabs are hitting 100 IRE, so it's going to hide the cast much more (if there is one) due to the overexposure.
In fact, it looks like all of them hit 100 at some point in the frame.
I was going to post a 4 way comparission - with the 3 cams I tested and yours - but I don't want to give the wrong impression.
But I will say that looking at your grabs, my initial reaction is that you don't have much to worry about. The images seem pretty clean - though if you do any more testing I would suggest setting your zebras to 80, and exposing for that (just open up the lens until you see the zebras then stop down just a bit so that you'll be getting an exposure between 70-80 IRE.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
UPDATE -
Just had a long talk with the main engineer I've been talking to.
He's doing what he can to get this resolved, and he seems to be equally as frustrated that people's schedules happen to be poorly timed with this problem. This is truly out of his domain, and it just so happens that those that would normally take charge of a problem like this are out of the office. He is making some calls as I write this and is going to call me back shortly.
I think from here on out I'm not going to post anymore updates about communications and/or customer service dealings except for those that have to do with the actual technical data of the camera problem. I don't want this thread to lose focus and derail into a customer service bashing frenzy. I will say that while things aren't resolved yet, I do actually believe that the guy I've been talking to is doing his best to get the right people on the case. As soon as any new information regarding the actual camera problem comes in, I'll update you.
I know a few of you have told me that I should be 'more upset' about this than I seem to be. I just want you to know that this thread is intended to inform about my camera issue - not to vent my frustrations. So I'm just doing what I can to keep it that way.
Just had a long talk with the main engineer I've been talking to.
He's doing what he can to get this resolved, and he seems to be equally as frustrated that people's schedules happen to be poorly timed with this problem. This is truly out of his domain, and it just so happens that those that would normally take charge of a problem like this are out of the office. He is making some calls as I write this and is going to call me back shortly.
I think from here on out I'm not going to post anymore updates about communications and/or customer service dealings except for those that have to do with the actual technical data of the camera problem. I don't want this thread to lose focus and derail into a customer service bashing frenzy. I will say that while things aren't resolved yet, I do actually believe that the guy I've been talking to is doing his best to get the right people on the case. As soon as any new information regarding the actual camera problem comes in, I'll update you.
I know a few of you have told me that I should be 'more upset' about this than I seem to be. I just want you to know that this thread is intended to inform about my camera issue - not to vent my frustrations. So I'm just doing what I can to keep it that way.
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
You're handling the situation very professionally as far as I'm concerned. :thumbsup:
Standing by...
Standing by...
Luis Caffesse
Admin
UPDATE -
So I'm shipping my camera back to Panasonic (just got off the phone with the same engineer and he asked that I ship it back).
I'm not certain that they're going to be able to do anything with it anytime soon seeing as some of the key players are out of the office, but I still have the loaner camera they sent me in the meantime so it seems fair to go ahead and ship it back.
For the record - they gave me their UPS number and are paying for the shipping.
I didn't have to ask for it either, which was good.
It was suggested in one conversation that my testing may have been 'too extreme' and made to bring out the imperfections in the camera (which is exactly what I thought a good test was meant to do). So, in an effort to put to rest the idea that this color cast only occurs in 'extreme' circumstances (which would STILL be unacceptable in my opinion),
I took the time to go through some of my footage and pull stills which I forwarded to everyone that I've been dealing with on this.
I'm not going to bother posting them in this thread because there are 20 samples in all.
If any of you are curious - here is the breakdown:
Samples 1-7 are all from a studio shoot in a controlled and lit environment.
These stills span 6 different days of shooting.
Take a look at the limestone walls, which are all the same color (in real life).
Notice how the walls are red on the left, and green on the right.
And on shots in which we framed to one side, sections of wall which appeared green in one shot now appear red.
Samples 8-20 are all from various other shoots, all of which were shot with available light. I did my best to find samples with uniform walls in the background or large patches of sky (for example). And in the instances in which I could, I pulled various stills from the same shoot. For example - looking at Sample 13-15 you'll see the same exterior shot from various angles, yet the sky always appears much more red on the left.
If you're interested, you can download the zipfile of the samples here
It's about 10.8MB.
Granted - the effect is not nearly as startling as it is when you are looking at a white backdrop - in that case its easy to see because I can tell you the background should be white and you know what that looks like. It's much less obvious in a real world environment unless you are there and see what it should look like, and then look on the monitor and see the uneveness of the color.
I believe I'm realistic - in the end this is a 5 thousand dollar camera, and most lenses cost much more than that on their own. I don't expect absolute perfection - but I do think what I'm seeing here is well below 'acceptable' variation in the color.
So I'm shipping my camera back to Panasonic (just got off the phone with the same engineer and he asked that I ship it back).
I'm not certain that they're going to be able to do anything with it anytime soon seeing as some of the key players are out of the office, but I still have the loaner camera they sent me in the meantime so it seems fair to go ahead and ship it back.
For the record - they gave me their UPS number and are paying for the shipping.
I didn't have to ask for it either, which was good.
It was suggested in one conversation that my testing may have been 'too extreme' and made to bring out the imperfections in the camera (which is exactly what I thought a good test was meant to do). So, in an effort to put to rest the idea that this color cast only occurs in 'extreme' circumstances (which would STILL be unacceptable in my opinion),
I took the time to go through some of my footage and pull stills which I forwarded to everyone that I've been dealing with on this.
I'm not going to bother posting them in this thread because there are 20 samples in all.
If any of you are curious - here is the breakdown:
Samples 1-7 are all from a studio shoot in a controlled and lit environment.
These stills span 6 different days of shooting.
Take a look at the limestone walls, which are all the same color (in real life).
Notice how the walls are red on the left, and green on the right.
And on shots in which we framed to one side, sections of wall which appeared green in one shot now appear red.
Samples 8-20 are all from various other shoots, all of which were shot with available light. I did my best to find samples with uniform walls in the background or large patches of sky (for example). And in the instances in which I could, I pulled various stills from the same shoot. For example - looking at Sample 13-15 you'll see the same exterior shot from various angles, yet the sky always appears much more red on the left.
If you're interested, you can download the zipfile of the samples here
It's about 10.8MB.
Granted - the effect is not nearly as startling as it is when you are looking at a white backdrop - in that case its easy to see because I can tell you the background should be white and you know what that looks like. It's much less obvious in a real world environment unless you are there and see what it should look like, and then look on the monitor and see the uneveness of the color.
I believe I'm realistic - in the end this is a 5 thousand dollar camera, and most lenses cost much more than that on their own. I don't expect absolute perfection - but I do think what I'm seeing here is well below 'acceptable' variation in the color.
Keep posting Luis, with Harry Potter over, all I've got is this thread. 
I'm beginning to think that most if not all HVX200's exhibit the shading behavior to some extent, but there is a range of effect intensity. The loaner clearly has less of an effect and it looks like the other cam you tried is slightly worse than yours. So I imagine that in cameras with a milder amount of shading, the effect could easily be masked by the scene being shot. So in a natural scene with a lot of color and light variations, it's going to be hard to pick this up--especially if the camera has less shading. In critical applications, such shooting with a white backdrop, this is going to be more of an issue. I can't believe it's good for green screen--with some red contaminating the green, so it might adversely effect the ability to pull a clean key--depending on the software. Worst case--I'd ask to keep the loaner and let them have your camera.
I'm beginning to think that most if not all HVX200's exhibit the shading behavior to some extent, but there is a range of effect intensity. The loaner clearly has less of an effect and it looks like the other cam you tried is slightly worse than yours. So I imagine that in cameras with a milder amount of shading, the effect could easily be masked by the scene being shot. So in a natural scene with a lot of color and light variations, it's going to be hard to pick this up--especially if the camera has less shading. In critical applications, such shooting with a white backdrop, this is going to be more of an issue. I can't believe it's good for green screen--with some red contaminating the green, so it might adversely effect the ability to pull a clean key--depending on the software. Worst case--I'd ask to keep the loaner and let them have your camera.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
DOH! Will do, I'll retest in the morning, and upload new stills. Sorry about that. I had the zebras set at 80, I then under exposed, and over exposed the image from there.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
Alright, I've redone the test and I've uploaded the zip file- I have just replaced the zip file, so the previous link still works:
http://www.235studios.com/WhiteShading.zip
In the Zip file there is a text document explaining my set up, settings, and naming convention. Hopefully this set of tests will be more helpful to you.
http://www.235studios.com/WhiteShading.zip
In the Zip file there is a text document explaining my set up, settings, and naming convention. Hopefully this set of tests will be more helpful to you.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Wow - thanks for going to that trouble Ryan.
I've got to say, after looking over your grabs in FCP, I can't see any issue with your camera at all. In fact, out of the 5 that I've seen grabs from under the same conditions - yours looks the best. Seriously.
Looking at the RGB Parade scopes, all channels seem to be in lock step with eachother, no major spikes or anything that I can see.
Now, when I crank the saturation WAY up, and crunch the levels in then I can sort of see a red/green tinge...but I would find it totally acceptable at that level. To put it in perspective - if I crank up the saturation on your clips, and push the levels to extremes to bring out the color cast, your grabs still look better than the raw frames from my camera.
:thumbsup:
Whatever you were seeing it in at some point doesn't seem to be showing up under these tests - or at least, I'm not seeing it.
Then again, maybe my perspective is skewed a bit now.
I've got to say, after looking over your grabs in FCP, I can't see any issue with your camera at all. In fact, out of the 5 that I've seen grabs from under the same conditions - yours looks the best. Seriously.
Looking at the RGB Parade scopes, all channels seem to be in lock step with eachother, no major spikes or anything that I can see.
Now, when I crank the saturation WAY up, and crunch the levels in then I can sort of see a red/green tinge...but I would find it totally acceptable at that level. To put it in perspective - if I crank up the saturation on your clips, and push the levels to extremes to bring out the color cast, your grabs still look better than the raw frames from my camera.
:thumbsup:
Whatever you were seeing it in at some point doesn't seem to be showing up under these tests - or at least, I'm not seeing it.
Then again, maybe my perspective is skewed a bit now.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
Glad to hear that the problem is not showing up. Although I'm still sorry to hear about your problem, sorry it couldn't have shed any light for you. When Jerry had my camera, he was able to recreate the problem- you can check out the stills he got with my camera in his post. Although he was not able to set up a controlled environment like I was able to. I also noticed that he used a preset for white balance, while I used the card to white balance. I wonder if that has any effect .....
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Your grabs actually do help me quite a bit - they keep me from going crazy and thinking that this is something that might be going on with EVERY HVX. It's really easy to lose perspective in these situations - and I either wind up thinking I'm being too picky, or not picky enough. Your camera shows me two things - First, that there are obviously HVX's out there that do not have this issue, and secondly that it's possible to get minimal lens shading issues with proper alignment and calibration. Now whether or not my camera is going to need repair or replacement is still to be seen - but seeing the results of your camera (and a few others I've gotten via email) gives me some more 'proof' to show that this isn't something that I should just accept.
Again, thanks for taking the time.
Again, thanks for taking the time.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
No problem, glad to help where ever I can. If I can be of any further assistance, let me know.