XH-A1 vs Sony HVR-Z1

Nasser said:
I wonder what things will make the canon XH-A1 beats the Z1 :bath:.
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24F. Extensive image control. 20x zoom. The only thing the Z1 has over it is PAL compatibility. For another $500 the A1 can also do that and you're still under the price of a Z1.
 
Nasser said:
Any successor for the Sony HVR-Z1 yet ?
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Maybe if you count the HVR-V1U. It's not a "successor" in the true sense because that camera goes off in an entirely different direction. 1/4'' CMOS instead of 1/3'' CCD, 1080/24p instead of 60i, no PAL functionality.
 
jade8472 said:
Maybe if you count the HVR-V1U. It's not a "successor" in the true sense because that camera goes off in an entirely different direction. 1/4'' CMOS instead of 1/3'' CCD, 1080/24p instead of 60i, no PAL functionality.
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I hop not, would like to see Sony announce for a three 1/3 CCD real competitor successor :kali:
 
I would consider the new XDCAM EX to be the true successor to the Z1U. It's the real step-up that the camera line needs, but it's also likely to be more expensive than the original Z1U MSRP.
 
Elton said:
I would consider the new XDCAM EX to be the true successor to the Z1U. It's the real step-up that the camera line needs, but it's also likely to be more expensive than the original Z1U MSRP.
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Agreed, 1/2" sensors, fixed lens, and tapeless are definitely a proper step up. And the direction most of the prosumer cameras should be taken - with the picture quality a little HV20 can put out, the mid-level cameras need to distinguish themselves.

Hopefully other manufacturers will take their prosumer cameras down the same path as Sony (though I would prefer if they'd get rid of Long-GOP recording and offer 4:2:2 as standard!)
 
Couple thing I use a lot when shooting wedding I see that Sony Z1 bad compare to Canon XH-A1. Come on Sony Iris control completely in the wrong place. At the matter of fact Iris is the one that are use the most. Why do I need 2 LCD monitor for to eat all the battery. They say it is useful, but I had have use real professional camcorder with real lens the 1.5 inch viewfinder is good enough. Zoom in and focus that all professional use their camcorder. For the lens Sony can't compare to Canon at all. Canon beat the heck out of Sony unless if you want to compare Canon pro consumer with the pro on Sony and they use Canon lens anyway. The part I love a bout Canon is that they only have 1 line of camcorder so they will try to make the best of it. Not like Sony Pro and Pro consumer. If you want that pro look I'm really sure you have to spend that money to get it. Sony will probably not put all the function pro like on their pro consumer camcorder. Just like edit in Avid or Final Cut Pro if any know that Avid have all line of product but Final Cut Pro only one.
 
tommy nguyen said:
Come on Sony Iris control completely in the wrong place.
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My previous camera before the A1 was the FX1, which is essentially the same as the Z1. The iris knob was fine where it is for me, completely accessible.

tommy nguyen said:
Why do I need 2 LCD monitor for to eat all the battery. They say it is useful, but I had have use real professional camcorder with real lens the 1.5 inch viewfinder is good enough. Zoom in and focus that all professional use their camcorder.
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The viewfinders on professional cameras are all significantly higher resolution than those on your $3500-4000 camera. I hardly use the viewfinder at all on the A1 because it's too small and not that much higher res than the LCD. The Z1/FX1 has one of the best (if not the best)LCD in its class of HD camera. Focus was definitely much easier on my old FX1 than my current A1.

tommy nguyen said:
For the lens Sony can't compare to Canon at all. Canon beat the heck out of Sony unless if you want to compare Canon pro consumer with the pro on Sony and they use Canon lens anyway.
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Sony uses Carl Zeiss lense, Canon manufacture their own lense. At this price range neither are good. Just "okayish." For the price you can't prove that one is better than the other.


tommy nguyen said:
The part I love a bout Canon is that they only have 1 line of camcorder so they will try to make the best of it. Not like Sony Pro and Pro consumer. If you want that pro look I'm really sure you have to spend that money to get it.
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This I'll agree with. Sony needs to make up its mind about who it's target customer is; they're either consumers who couldn't care less about 24p or balanced audio or they're low budget filmmakers who demand the most bang for the buck.
 
jade8472 said:
My previous camera before the A1 was the FX1, which is essentially the same as the Z1. The iris knob was fine where it is for me, completely accessible.
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Hum I guess you are not using the manual mode a lot while shooting. When shooting pro camcorder my 3 fingers always on the 3 ring on the lens. I got a lot guy complaint about the Iris button on the Z1 and all of them is pro shooting full time. They even say it is in the wrong place worse then the PD150. Just think about when you panning and change Iris. I'm not talking in post setup.



jade8472 said:
The viewfinders on professional cameras are all significantly higher resolution than those on your $3500-4000 camera. I hardly use the viewfinder at all on the A1 because it's too small and not that much higher res than the LCD. The Z1/FX1 has one of the best (if not the best)LCD in its class of HD camera. Focus was definitely much easier on my old FX1 than my current A1.
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I agree on this, but I guess I have my light meter with me all the time alway measure the light in all part of the room before I shoot so I can guess what F stop need to be set. On the focus I'm most like on estimate the distance then zoom in focus and zoom out quick.




jade8472 said:
Sony uses Carl Zeiss lense, Canon manufacture their own lense. At this price range neither are good. Just "okayish." For the price you can't prove that one is better than the other.
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If you Zoom the Sony over the 12x which it will go to the digital on the camcorder optical lens you will see the different on the big screen. Canon only let you use up to 20x of the optical lens.[/quote]

I have 2 DV cam in the past Panasonic and Sony. Now with Canon I see big different marketing way with their line of equipment which it should be good. The only thing I hope is that Canon would give me the most reliable when shooting. Panasonic and Sony never die on me after using them for 4 years. If I go with another camcorder I would go with Panasonic or Canon or even JVC not Sony. They jack up the price too much and the function is so limit with the pro consumer level. Sony will come out which the new HDV soon which it suppose to be 1/2 inch CDD shoulder mount. I guess the price will be over 10k. That is too much I rather get 3 Canon A1 and my client will love it more. And too make your client be amaze how big equipment you use. Put the Wide Angle lens on the Canon with the shade it look hell big everyone thought I'm shooting for Hollywood. Also stick the wireless transmitter on the back of the camcorder with that antenna go up everyone will ask you "what is this?". Use some kind brand name equipment normal user won't know like Sennheiser wireless, Vinten tripod, dolly, shoulder support. Just make you look like a pro so not even they couple say their money are worthiness, also the people attend the party know you as a pro.

I got money out of shooting wedding which it require quick making decision and some pro look. I rather get a camera it is difficult to use and kind like user friendly when I know it so everyone will knowledge I'm a pro. Sometime I have to admit I'm shooting video like crap , because wedding style are going like crazy from different client. Client still like me when I show up with 3 camcorders 2 camera mens. They will understand if some moment in the video come out not good is not really my bad is just the fact that they forgot during the ceremony. I like the invisible style shooting so I don't like to interfere in the ceremony culture a lot unless I really have to do it to make the shoot look good.
 
tommy nguyen said:
Hum I guess you are not using the manual mode a lot while shooting. When shooting pro camcorder my 3 fingers always on the 3 ring on the lens. I got a lot guy complaint about the Iris button on the Z1 and all of them is pro shooting full time. They even say it is in the wrong place worse then the PD150. Just think about when you panning and change Iris. I'm not talking in post setup.
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I always shoot full manual. Neither the Sony or the Canon has fully manual lense so you can't zoom in and focus at the same time anyway.


tommy nguyen said:
If you Zoom the Sony over the 12x which it will go to the digital on the camcorder optical lens you will see the different on the big screen. Canon only let you use up to 20x of the optical lens.
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Oh, you're talking about the 12x vs. 20x difference. Digital zooming is more of a matter of resolution. Except for the focal length difference the two lenses are of comparable quality. If you go out wide on the Canon and the Sony there's a comparable degree of barrel distortion.


tommy nguyen said:
Put the Wide Angle lens on the Canon with the shade it look hell big everyone thought I'm shooting for Hollywood.
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It's funny because when I had the FX1 I had quite a few people asking me if I was shooting for a news station or something. No one did after I got the A1. Even though it's a technically superior camera it's just smaller and looks "cheaper" to the average consumer. Looks does matter, which is why I've bought an old JVC DV500 as a second cam. It's an old camera but the "wow" form factor is there and lends an air of credibility.
 
jade8472 said:
It's funny because when I had the FX1 I had quite a few people asking me if I was shooting for a news station or something. No one did after I got the A1. Even though it's a technically superior camera it's just smaller and looks "cheaper" to the average consumer. Looks does matter, which is why I've bought an old JVC DV500 as a second cam. It's an old camera but the "wow" form factor is there and lends an air of credibility.
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Have you try put on the Wide Angle Lens on the Canon. It look really big people will ask what you doing. And plug all that accessory on your camcorder to the back to make it balance too. I know the JVC DV500 is good because it is 1/2CCD. But only for DV format editing. When you go full HDV the DV500 can't compare to any HDV cam. I still have my Panasonic DVC200 I think which it better then the DV500,but I'm selling it soon anyway. It is too heavy hard to get a run shoot. And if you really in the wedding business just for got about the new line of Sony come out because it will be all non tape. We can't invest in 10x32gig about 10k I guess if we going to shoot full day with 3 camcorder. The price go down so quick not even worthiness to invest in it. And oh we still have to backup all though file anyway. I love to have tape backup then hard drive. I won't know when my hard drive going to die this day. That why I'm jump in with the Canon and don't worry about the new Sony come out soon.


Oh couple rule about focus zoom and pan let me see if I'm right. You don't zoom while you pan only change the iris if lighting change in the room. You don't change focus when you zoom in the object. The object should already focus at closeup before you zoom in. Only pro working in film using rack focus on zoom and focus at the same time.
 
tommy nguyen said:
You don't change focus when you zoom in the object.
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With the A1 you can't even if you want to. There's only one motor that's used for both focus and zoom, unlike a real manual lense. So zooming locks your focus until you stop and focusing prevent you from zooming.

Personally I hate tape. People says that it's "cheap" but it's really not. I ended up spending close to $100 in tape for my last job; it adds up after a while. I don't trust hard drives like the FS either. The Sony intrigues me. If it's the real deal I might just find a way to dump my A1 and raise the money for it. Solid state is the future.
 
jade8472 said:
With the A1 you can't even if you want to. There's only one motor that's used for both focus and zoom, unlike a real manual lense. So zooming locks your focus until you stop and focusing prevent you from zooming.

Personally I hate tape. People says that it's "cheap" but it's really not. I ended up spending close to $100 in tape for my last job; it adds up after a while. I don't trust hard drives like the FS either. The Sony intrigues me. If it's the real deal I might just find a way to dump my A1 and raise the money for it. Solid state is the future.
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Here is my calculation one tape. I actually use more then $100 on tape on the job. About $200. Make 2000 spend 200 so not bad. I don't have to worry about backup my footage anywhere. Here go the tape less about 3-4 time faster on the capturing. You have to be really good on how to manage though digital files before you delete on your card to use for the next job. Or else thing will not really nice. So in one year if you have 20 events you will spend about 4000 on tape. If you back up your stuff you will probably spend about 500 if go tape less to store it on a hard drive. If you going with memory card with 10 card in one year I know they will probably lost about 4000 in value anyway this day. I love technology, but if it make no sense for business I won't use them. When they don't make tape anymore then I go with solid state. I guess that will be in the next 5-10 years. At that time that price is real cheap anyway for the media. I personally like Sony stuff too. But the price sometime is too unreasonable.

Real zoom lens too expensive so not fare to compare anyway. Oh I never focus when I zoom really. That why I think the Canon concept not a problem to me. The subject I suppose to be zoom in should be already focus before I zoom. For quick zoom I just zoom in really quick and let the focus do the job at the end. I always cut to other Cam when I zoom on one Cam. Just think as a concept while you directing a live show or directing a movie with multiple Cams cut and take then that should not be a problem. I don't do the cheat stuff cut to some part not even real time. I got all 3 cam run at all time with all different angle. I'm not even put the record but to stop at anytime. That help me only syn one time for easy to edit real time syn. At a matter of fact editing is so easy too. That what I learn from my broadcasting courses.
 
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