Sony's Dirty Marketing - A Rant

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nsoltz

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Just back from NAB and trying to dig out from the information overload and the work backlog.

We expect competition between manufacturers and formats. Competition is good. It gives users options and forces all of us to strive for our best. But we live in a society guided not just by law but by ethics. Whatever our perspectives in life might be, there are certain basic moral principles to which we strive. Among these is honesty.

Some Sony reps were telling booth visitors that P2 cards would lose data if you kept them in your pocket with change or if they came into contact with any CRT display. As a test, Barry tells me that he kept a card in his pocket all day (presumably with all the change he won in the casinos) and then rubbed it across the CRT of a slot machine. The P2 card lost no data and I sincerely hope that Barry lost no money. It's just a blatant untruth and it crosses the line of what is appropriate in a professional industry.

There was also a little red circular sign with P2 and a red slash. That's just dirty and I also think untrue. P2 is here and will remain here. Yes, formats and technologies change. I suppose in retrospect we could have a nice little graphic of a Quad machine with a red line through it or include Ampex in our memorial thoughts. Technological evolution, yes; lies, no.

My message to Sony is just to put your new camera and card format out in the marketplace and see what the users think. Me-- I'll take an I frame codec any day over a GOP codec. But compete on the merit of your own product and not by false representation of the competition.

End rant.

Ned Soltz
 
Not surprising at all.

I have attended many Sony presentations over the years and they are always doing some kind of BS railing against Panasonic. (or as they call it "the P company")

This kind of behavior would suggest that they are really feeling the presence of Panasonic in the marketplace. And as such, they are reacting like scared children do by resorting to name calling and dirty tactics.

What they should do is get of their A$$es and create something that will sell to compete with the market Panasonic is harvesting.
 
nsoltz said:
Just back from NAB and trying to dig out from the information overload and the work backlog.

We expect competition between manufacturers and formats. Competition is good. It gives users options and forces all of us to strive for our best. But we live in a society guided not just by law but by ethics. Whatever our perspectives in life might be, there are certain basic moral principles to which we strive. Among these is honesty.

Some Sony reps were telling booth visitors that P2 cards would lose data if you kept them in your pocket with change or if they came into contact with any CRT display. As a test, Barry tells me that he kept a card in his pocket all day (presumably with all the change he won in the casinos) and then rubbed it across the CRT of a slot machine. The P2 card lost no data and I sincerely hope that Barry lost no money. It's just a blatant untruth and it crosses the line of what is appropriate in a professional industry.

There was also a little red circular sign with P2 and a red slash. That's just dirty and I also think untrue. P2 is here and will remain here. Yes, formats and technologies change. I suppose in retrospect we could have a nice little graphic of a Quad machine with a red line through it or include Ampex in our memorial thoughts. Technological evolution, yes; lies, no.

My message to Sony is just to put your new camera and card format out in the marketplace and see what the users think. Me-- I'll take an I frame codec any day over a GOP codec. But compete on the merit of your own product and not by false representation of the competition.

End rant.

Ned Soltz
Click to expand...

Hello Ned,
It was nice meeting you. This is the first year I have worked with Panasonic at NAB.
Many Panasonic reps were mentioning what you are talking about. The Panasonic folks were above the trash talk. Many customers were running back and forth between the Panasonic and Sony booths. Many were mentioning the "sites" they saw at the Sony booth and were disgusted with such dis-information pervading from the S company. Many of these shooters were coming from DV and wanted to step up to HD. Once they understood the difference between I-frame and Long GOP, it was a no brainer. I could talk from a shooter/editor perspective and many of the NAB convention goers could appreciate that.
 
nsoltz said:
My message to Sony is just to put your new camera and card format out in the marketplace and see what the users think. Me-- I'll take an I frame codec any day over a GOP codec. But compete on the merit of your own product and not by false representation of the competition.
Click to expand...

I agree Ned.

Let the marketplace decide.

I hope everybody gives Hoodman the same consideration.

BTW, have you posted any great photos of the booth ladies?
 
While slightly OT here, this is the first year I did not shlep a camera other than my cell phone camera. And the only babe I shot with cell phone camera was Natasha, one of the Red prototypes.

Ned
 
I used Sony camcorders until I got an HVX, and they were fine, but I think Sony has been playing catch up ever since the DVX came out, at least in that market segment, which may be the reason for these kinds of unsavory tactics. I don't know why they would think this could possibly help them in the long run.
 
Sony has problems all the way up the corporate ladder. They have lost touch with a majority of their consumers in all markets of their products.
They are losing their asses to an overpriced playstation.
Remember their online music site and their mp3 player?
And their HDV cameras just plain suck.
They know they are losing customers and their products are not what they used to be.
But hey. thats only my opinion.
 
Sucks means nothing to me, so I can't comment on that.

"losing their assess on . . . playstation." Who cares?

Playstation, music sites, and mp3 players are not part of the company's professional and prosumer video market.

The company makes some great cams, and its newest offering with digital card acquisition looks sweet.

We had a two HDV cams, the Z1U and the FX1 and they produced some great images. Post was tough, but the images were great.

But that's my opinion.
 
as my old boss used to say "blowing out another mans candle doesnt make yours shine any brighter"

Its a shame when a company attacks another companys efforts. Its just flat out WRONG to lie about your competitions products.

I remember when I was shopping for a hi-def cam and it was between the sony stuff and panny stuff. I bought panny beacuse of features and overall picture quality (to me) and I didnt want to go with the GOP compression. I didnt listen to any of the marketing from panny, it was the PRODUCT that sold me on the HVX.

Shame on you SONY
 
That's what causes us to move to the Panny.

I was the GOP issue, which really arose in post.

Not that I'm a huge fan of some of Panasonic's positions, but the cam speaks for itself.

except the flimsy 4 pin FW port, fairly inadequate LCD, and the battery mounts. I know they will break in the middle of a shot.
 
I don't see why they even bother. HVX has proven itself in the marketplace for quite some time already. I'd have a better position on them (Sony) if they'd just put their money where they're mouths are and give people what they want in a prosumer camera. What happened with Sony originally claiming the Z series to have a true 24fps when it didn't? Cheap tactics don't sell products. I bought the HVX because I had plenty of time to learn about the great features and see the awesome footage and work that people are putting up everyday, Whilst saving that enormous amount of money. If Sony wants a dime from me they better get it right like Panasonic did. Seeing a press release with a picture of a new camera and a bunch of slurrs isn't going to cut it. Show me the footage, Show me what it can do, Don't tell me what it might do. Until then I'm staying right where im at with the time proven HVX :)
 
Y'know, I had an FX1 and liked the camera, until I started editing with the footage.... Total nightmare, not only with rendering times, but also something so simple as log and capture. If I did not actually stop the capturing process, it would not capture anything at all. I don't want to sit there and keep a sharp eye on the capturing process, that wastes too much time.

Long story short: sold the FX1 to buy 2 HVXs and have not looked back since...
 
Sony's just pissed because even their progressive 24p video looks like webcam footage. With their rotating shutters, and their insane edge enhancment..

If they could come up with something worthy and didn't compress their video worse than consumer DV, they wouldn't have to resort to mudlinging.
 
Sony's 24P does not look like webcam footage.

C'mon. What purpose do hyperboles like this serve.

The HVX200 shoots beautiful footage, as does the Z1U. But the former is more versatile and holds up in post so much better.
 
We have a client with two FX-1s they use for corporate work. We get hired to DP/Direct/Produce with thier equipment. Besides the whole "I hate editing HDV" thing and the cineframe or whatever it is, I just cant stand trying to use the camera. The controls on the HVX make alot more sense and are much more useable to me. I just get the feeling that Panasonic designed a camera to be used by camera operators and Sony designed one just based on a features list.
 
Thanks for the thread. I sat for the Sony Demo of that camera. Every statement they made was against the P2 technology. The claim that the P2 technology has reached it's limit and "IS DEAD" must have been said a dozen times. It sounded like a poo poo on Panasonic rather then a rah rah for Sony's new sub 10k camera. And it's still going to be GOP??? When will they dump that concept? Next year?

Don't get me wrong. I've been in broadcast since 1976 and Sony has made some great technology. I still make bank with my 10 year old Camera/Deck. That's quite an accomplishment by today's standards.

But the release and discontinue rate of Sony over the last 10 years has made me re-think investing in thier products. The products Panasonic has been producing the last few years helped me find a replacement. :happy:

I love the concept of bragging about your product and let the market decide.
 
David lighten up, I was obviously exaggerating.

But, yes, sony does suck. Flame aside I'll change my tune when I see sony footage that I actually find aesthetically pleasing.
 
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