HOT! VIDEOPLUS overhelmed by P2 8Gig orders!! Asking them a 16Gig special price.
- Thread starter Jennyparis
- Start date
- Status
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Spec. I think the offer on the 8 gigs might be better held onto until later date that the 16 gigs come out. People (in the states are going to be waiting for that to happen to purchase in 8 gig)
The deal on the 16 may be that you don't have to give a price. Just set up the group buy, waiting list. X number of people and (if you are able to do this) say we will give 10% off of the average sale price when 16 gig cards are released to the first 100 people that sign up on this list.
?? Maybe ?
Jenny... I think you were mentioning buying directly from Panasonic... If I understood you, it ain't gonna happen. I don't know how it all works, but you have to be an authorized dealer to be able to purchase directly from panasonic. I don't know what all it would entail to become an authorized dealer, but I would imagine its more complex than just wanting to become one, and doing so. I am sure there are some hoops and paper to jump through.
It does sound like your deal is going to be good for the folks in your region though, especially with the recent fall in prices.
Later,
Jason
The deal on the 16 may be that you don't have to give a price. Just set up the group buy, waiting list. X number of people and (if you are able to do this) say we will give 10% off of the average sale price when 16 gig cards are released to the first 100 people that sign up on this list.
?? Maybe ?
Jenny... I think you were mentioning buying directly from Panasonic... If I understood you, it ain't gonna happen. I don't know how it all works, but you have to be an authorized dealer to be able to purchase directly from panasonic. I don't know what all it would entail to become an authorized dealer, but I would imagine its more complex than just wanting to become one, and doing so. I am sure there are some hoops and paper to jump through.
It does sound like your deal is going to be good for the folks in your region though, especially with the recent fall in prices.
Later,
Jason
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Jason,
The problem with setting up a discount now is that not all products have the same dealer/list margin. Until we know what that is, it's impossible to set a discount. Lets say the pricing only gives us a 10% margin. Then what? I know that once we know what the pricing is, we'll give you guys the best possible price.
David
The problem with setting up a discount now is that not all products have the same dealer/list margin. Until we know what that is, it's impossible to set a discount. Lets say the pricing only gives us a 10% margin. Then what? I know that once we know what the pricing is, we'll give you guys the best possible price.
David
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Sounds good
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
i am looking to get either 2x 16gig P2 or 2x 8 gig p2. let me know of the situation of the groupbuy.
Jennyparis
Well-known member
Jason and fellows,
before thinking of making any kind of direct deal with Panasonic, the idea that a significant number of end-users joining together to speak thru one voice, and possibly buying DIFFERENTLY than isolated buyer, can shake the common practice.
Just one example, my proposition is to write a petition signed by as many as possible stating that end-user price is too high, and I will bring this letter to Panasonic US and Panasonic Europe, with my steps to the hradpquarters shooted by one you, fellows, and displayed here.
When Panasonic organizes meetings with their resellers, if either Panasonic or resellers are aware of our "association to speak and buy", you can be sure they will talk about this.
Setting up an authorized Panasonic account with an entry purchase of 100k$ cash? Don't worry, it won't be so difficult. Our strength is to buy P2 (and other things later) the same way groceries are buying apples.
Scale of volume sales:
HIGH VOLUME.........................................................................................UNIT BUY
Panasonic -> wholesaler(?) -> resellers chain -> resellers -> corp -> END-USER
_______________BUYER GROUP__________________________________
..........................(better quota positioning)............................................................
With 2 advantages for us:
1) Paying cash
2) Originality: Creating end-user/vendor shortcut.
Panasonic could learn more about us, a powerful inquiry could influence dealer pricing.
Let's be together.
before thinking of making any kind of direct deal with Panasonic, the idea that a significant number of end-users joining together to speak thru one voice, and possibly buying DIFFERENTLY than isolated buyer, can shake the common practice.
Just one example, my proposition is to write a petition signed by as many as possible stating that end-user price is too high, and I will bring this letter to Panasonic US and Panasonic Europe, with my steps to the hradpquarters shooted by one you, fellows, and displayed here.
When Panasonic organizes meetings with their resellers, if either Panasonic or resellers are aware of our "association to speak and buy", you can be sure they will talk about this.
Setting up an authorized Panasonic account with an entry purchase of 100k$ cash? Don't worry, it won't be so difficult. Our strength is to buy P2 (and other things later) the same way groceries are buying apples.
Scale of volume sales:
HIGH VOLUME.........................................................................................UNIT BUY
Panasonic -> wholesaler(?) -> resellers chain -> resellers -> corp -> END-USER
_______________BUYER GROUP__________________________________
..........................(better quota positioning)............................................................
With 2 advantages for us:
1) Paying cash
2) Originality: Creating end-user/vendor shortcut.
Panasonic could learn more about us, a powerful inquiry could influence dealer pricing.
Let's be together.
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Spec-Comm said:
Two questions.
Jenny:
Are the French/German dealers selling 8Gb cards at this price authorized Panasonic dealers for their respective countries?
If they are, is there some quality difference between p2 cards shipped to Europe versus those shipped to the United States?
Could some stateside dealer explain why 8Gb p2 cards are substantially less expensive in Europe than they are state side if they are both by Panasonic authorized dealers.
I certainly appreciate all the efforts by companies to sell Panny products stateside.
But after all, they are making money doing it.
If we are a substantial user base and we deal direct or command some buying perogative, so be it. It is certainly worth a try to me.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
I think the reason why p2 cards have recently dropped in price and become cheaper than their us counterparts is as a counter to the us p2 rebate program
Jenny, your plan is a noble one. I wish you the best. I fear the beauracracy of it all will not make a direct link so easy. There are many factors to consider.
One thing you may already be aware of. There is a Panasonic representative that is present on this board already. She has been very supportive of peoples queries, complaints and requests, etc. A large part of what made the hvx so great of a product is her doing. Her being here on this board, and listening to what people wanted in a camera.
I wish you luck. Please keep me posted.
Jason
Jenny, your plan is a noble one. I wish you the best. I fear the beauracracy of it all will not make a direct link so easy. There are many factors to consider.
One thing you may already be aware of. There is a Panasonic representative that is present on this board already. She has been very supportive of peoples queries, complaints and requests, etc. A large part of what made the hvx so great of a product is her doing. Her being here on this board, and listening to what people wanted in a camera.
I wish you luck. Please keep me posted.
Jason
abeljerrod
Active member
..as with the other vendors mentioned... we at Abel Cine Tech will certainly be extending a DVXUser discount to this product as we have for most Panasonic products for some time now. Once Panasonic officially releases info (pricing, etc.) on the 16GB cards we will all have a better idea where we stand and what kind of pricing/discount we can extend.
John Godden
Well-known member
I really applaud the authorized dealers who have commented in this thread.
IMHO, a healthy authorized dealer system is paramount to a healthy user base and product line. I realize people want the 'best deal' possible.................. but at what cost and inconvenience?
Pani US has developed a clear strategy to promote their HVX product. Give them a chance to do the same with the P2 products.
Regards
JohnG
IMHO, a healthy authorized dealer system is paramount to a healthy user base and product line. I realize people want the 'best deal' possible.................. but at what cost and inconvenience?
Pani US has developed a clear strategy to promote their HVX product. Give them a chance to do the same with the P2 products.
Regards
JohnG
Jennyparis
Well-known member
Fellows, dear Panasonic professionnals, and all good will people,
we are not entering a fight, but an open dialog that everyone can read at the same pace, as it unfolds, between us, end users all together from any regions, because of our recognition of DVXuser as a reference site to exchange.
Bringing our words in an organized manner, building up a serious Panasonic End-User (Power buyer) Group (we need to be a significant number signing a common chart or manifest), would allow a direct dialog with regional Panasonic US & Europe headquarters.
Our recurrent group buy for 4/8/16 could be our current objective.
Let's call us (all proposition welcomed!):
Panasonic Prosumers Global User Group (PPGUG)
with 2 regional chapters: US & Europe.
- We define together a common chart (that we will turn as a PDF available to all of us) that we individually sign to be mailed to our choosen SECRETARY, representing the group.
- The first objective being this P2 group buy, a PDF describing our common agreed will to join, is again signed by all of us and mailed to SECRETARY.
- The SECRETARY collect all your agreements as a Group Petition towards Panasonic, or any other commercial entities, to show our dealing power.
We are/were happy to discuss here about the wonderful Panasonic products, but now, we, people spending money at the end of the chain, desire more feedback and commercial infos from Panasonic. Strategic P2 pricing matter to us.
PPGUG possibly representing thousand of loyal Panasonic customers can knock the door, believe me.
My proposal is to bring physically our PPGUG Group Petition directly to Panasonic US & Europe headquarters, when we are ready, shhoted by our local fellows and displayed here, on clip section.
NOW, to be more specific about P2 group buying:
- We witeness some jittering in P2 European pricing in at least 3 countries:
France, Germany & Denmark.
A consistent feedback from national Pannys and local dealers preannounce this price drop.
Pana France has unveiled the upcoming drop a little too early, other french dealers reading both the P2 thread here and visiting VIDEOPLUS web site have complained to Panasonic France. so, they withdrawed temporarily the drop.
BUT Germany & Denmark confirmed it will happen soon.
Pana Japan major dealer (system5.co.jp) wrote to me that P16 are scheduled for April at best.
So, this is a jittering situation, and imagine if PPGUG could knock the door!
Anyway, regardless of this upcoming drop and 16Gig P2 introduction, the group buy can be organized from now (building up our memberlist, common agreed goal, signed amiled charts for Global Petition, there is some works!)
and will be turn into our first BID, either on current pricing, either when drop occurs. But, again, we are not working for a one shot opportunity, we can have cyclic group buy for P2s (US list & Europe list).
As you understand, PPGUG go beyond a one time P2 group buy.
PPGUG can have one official representative (SECRETARY) to Panasonic US & Europe.
And remember we already have our PPGUG TV and crews!
This is enough matter here to discuss, to agreed together about the proper organization of our group.
Our philosophy could be that:
we wish to be heard by Panasonic & dealers,
we wish to induce a P2 pricing revision,
we would be happy that PPGUG trigger some Pana/dealers debate.
we welcome dealers to relay our vision and to offer best/group deals.
BUT, we represent a consistent BUYING POWER and we have enough:
AV professionnals,
business men & women,
market knowledge,
to setup any group buy, through any constitued and legal form of association and/or "dealer like" to reach our goal of getting better price & info.
I offer some of my time, some of my travels, some of my business skill to help building up this group and participate like you to this project.
I can relay all my ideas, give my help to any fellows, perhaps more representative, or someone more known here.
just wishing to make things happen !
we are not entering a fight, but an open dialog that everyone can read at the same pace, as it unfolds, between us, end users all together from any regions, because of our recognition of DVXuser as a reference site to exchange.
Bringing our words in an organized manner, building up a serious Panasonic End-User (Power buyer) Group (we need to be a significant number signing a common chart or manifest), would allow a direct dialog with regional Panasonic US & Europe headquarters.
Our recurrent group buy for 4/8/16 could be our current objective.
Let's call us (all proposition welcomed!):
Panasonic Prosumers Global User Group (PPGUG)
with 2 regional chapters: US & Europe.
- We define together a common chart (that we will turn as a PDF available to all of us) that we individually sign to be mailed to our choosen SECRETARY, representing the group.
- The first objective being this P2 group buy, a PDF describing our common agreed will to join, is again signed by all of us and mailed to SECRETARY.
- The SECRETARY collect all your agreements as a Group Petition towards Panasonic, or any other commercial entities, to show our dealing power.
We are/were happy to discuss here about the wonderful Panasonic products, but now, we, people spending money at the end of the chain, desire more feedback and commercial infos from Panasonic. Strategic P2 pricing matter to us.
PPGUG possibly representing thousand of loyal Panasonic customers can knock the door, believe me.
My proposal is to bring physically our PPGUG Group Petition directly to Panasonic US & Europe headquarters, when we are ready, shhoted by our local fellows and displayed here, on clip section.
NOW, to be more specific about P2 group buying:
- We witeness some jittering in P2 European pricing in at least 3 countries:
France, Germany & Denmark.
A consistent feedback from national Pannys and local dealers preannounce this price drop.
Pana France has unveiled the upcoming drop a little too early, other french dealers reading both the P2 thread here and visiting VIDEOPLUS web site have complained to Panasonic France. so, they withdrawed temporarily the drop.
BUT Germany & Denmark confirmed it will happen soon.
Pana Japan major dealer (system5.co.jp) wrote to me that P16 are scheduled for April at best.
So, this is a jittering situation, and imagine if PPGUG could knock the door!
Anyway, regardless of this upcoming drop and 16Gig P2 introduction, the group buy can be organized from now (building up our memberlist, common agreed goal, signed amiled charts for Global Petition, there is some works!)
and will be turn into our first BID, either on current pricing, either when drop occurs. But, again, we are not working for a one shot opportunity, we can have cyclic group buy for P2s (US list & Europe list).
As you understand, PPGUG go beyond a one time P2 group buy.
PPGUG can have one official representative (SECRETARY) to Panasonic US & Europe.
And remember we already have our PPGUG TV and crews!
This is enough matter here to discuss, to agreed together about the proper organization of our group.
Our philosophy could be that:
we wish to be heard by Panasonic & dealers,
we wish to induce a P2 pricing revision,
we would be happy that PPGUG trigger some Pana/dealers debate.
we welcome dealers to relay our vision and to offer best/group deals.
BUT, we represent a consistent BUYING POWER and we have enough:
AV professionnals,
business men & women,
market knowledge,
to setup any group buy, through any constitued and legal form of association and/or "dealer like" to reach our goal of getting better price & info.
I offer some of my time, some of my travels, some of my business skill to help building up this group and participate like you to this project.
I can relay all my ideas, give my help to any fellows, perhaps more representative, or someone more known here.
just wishing to make things happen !
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Such a group could have some advantages for Panasonic too:
What about offering our "collective power" also as free space for marketing research and exchange? Panasonic could profit directly from our opinions and interests - e.g. for future devices and accessories.
I know about cameras (also HVX) beeing handed out almost freely just for marketing reasons... in our town's college, it's the Apple computers beeing offered almost freely - also for marketing reasons. This is an example for a direct customer-manufacurer alliance. Our intention here could just be another one...
We are illusionists but it's illusions that bring innovations. And this time it's the prosumer that initiates the (marketing) innovation... Let's just try it. Maybe it works!
What about offering our "collective power" also as free space for marketing research and exchange? Panasonic could profit directly from our opinions and interests - e.g. for future devices and accessories.
I know about cameras (also HVX) beeing handed out almost freely just for marketing reasons... in our town's college, it's the Apple computers beeing offered almost freely - also for marketing reasons. This is an example for a direct customer-manufacurer alliance. Our intention here could just be another one...
We are illusionists but it's illusions that bring innovations. And this time it's the prosumer that initiates the (marketing) innovation... Let's just try it. Maybe it works!
Jennyparis
Well-known member
SPZ said:
First, I suggest we open a debate around the points of my proposal.
1 - Then, we could open a thread to recruit members, adding your name to the list.
2 - I talk about a PPGUG chart, will start a draft posted here, to define our goal together. when draft complete, we make it avail PDF, you print it, sign it and mail it to the person offering postal hosting address for PPGUG (one among us volunteer and agreed).
3 - We open our first group buy (1 list for US, 1 for Europe)
4 - When we reach a significant number of members [no idea! hundreds? thousand(s)? to start?] , PPGUG will contact Panasonic to present our group and P2 pricing concern, at least.
5 - our SECRETARY (am volunteer, nut anyone from us) will physically visit Panasonic headquarter to present our group. (Shooted and posted).
6 - Then we can submit our BID at the right timeframe? Does we submit a bid for 8Gig P2 in US now? Does we wait the 8/16 transition and 8gig drop? Does some dealers will relay our "price shaking bid"?
It is the building process, where exchange could become fruitful.
This is just an example to illustrate how to progress, but it can be different.
What is essential is PPGUG exists and have growing users base, that the first P2 group buy is discussed.
alpi69
Veteran
nice idea jenny. I think it could definitely work in Europe, because there is such a weird Marketing-Distribution system by Panasonic which makes Sony so strong over here. Such a list can make the Panasonic-heads spin around in Europe, because one distributor will make significant sales which are placed from outside his distribution line.
In the US the Panasonic company is much better in marketing and there are already people giving discounts on top of that. First Jan/Pnan give Barry´s book and a P2-8GB for free and then SpecComm, Abel and others are here in the list to add discounts. I guess there is not much more to ask for on that side of the atlantic. I mean , yes we want to squeeze a few percents out off them, but we on´t wanna damage their business.
In Europe it is different, because the prices vary in different countries even before VAT. There is a lot to take off distributors margins here. What annoys me most is the fact when I ask Pana Europe I get a reply from Pana Austria that I ought to talk to them and not Europe or Germany. But there are systemhouses in Germany and Italy and Switzerland much closer to me than in Vienna. So I want to buy there. They have not understood "Europe" yet.
Jenny, you are aware there is quite some time to be spent on such a big order. Handling shipping, payments etc for 50-70 people is quite a task and the reason why there are companies doing it and adding a few bucks to each order. Do you want to run such a task? Do you have time for that or a company that has time for that? I ask because it can be a hassle to chase people for payments which will use someone´s time.
I for my part wait until the price drops at the awaited € 550 for the 8GB card before I place my order. Until then I rent P2.
In the US the Panasonic company is much better in marketing and there are already people giving discounts on top of that. First Jan/Pnan give Barry´s book and a P2-8GB for free and then SpecComm, Abel and others are here in the list to add discounts. I guess there is not much more to ask for on that side of the atlantic. I mean , yes we want to squeeze a few percents out off them, but we on´t wanna damage their business.
In Europe it is different, because the prices vary in different countries even before VAT. There is a lot to take off distributors margins here. What annoys me most is the fact when I ask Pana Europe I get a reply from Pana Austria that I ought to talk to them and not Europe or Germany. But there are systemhouses in Germany and Italy and Switzerland much closer to me than in Vienna. So I want to buy there. They have not understood "Europe" yet.
Jenny, you are aware there is quite some time to be spent on such a big order. Handling shipping, payments etc for 50-70 people is quite a task and the reason why there are companies doing it and adding a few bucks to each order. Do you want to run such a task? Do you have time for that or a company that has time for that? I ask because it can be a hassle to chase people for payments which will use someone´s time.
I for my part wait until the price drops at the awaited € 550 for the 8GB card before I place my order. Until then I rent P2.
Jennyparis
Well-known member
Alpi,
our first goal is "One voice", one significant user group expressing the P2 pricing problem, where there is no competition, just one manufacturer.
So, first step is to join the PPGUG idea, then the group buy idea is good for different reasons, please don't think just for your next P2 purchase, it is beyond that.
PPGUG and group buy is to leave your isolated buyer island to talk with a loudspeaker.
Just the fact that the group buy exists and could be potentially presented to Panasonic or dealers shake the ground; this gives a good argument for dealers discussing with Panasonic.
We are not against dealers, they are with us. We can develop this with them.
When a dealer claims a very few margin and when a french dealer can cut price by half. There is a BIG problem. You are in front of a monopolistic situation.
Because a manufacturer sells a memory product (not a video product) which is unique.
A powerful PPGUG, (thousands of members, with a chart presented to Panasonic, recognized) can do tremendous things:
1) We can present a cash group buy (US and Europe) to Panasonic where a deal can be obtained from Panasonic giving an extra discount to PPGUG friendly dealers in a sort of a special P2 operation.
That won't be the first time a manufacturer participate to a discount program.
2) We can even ask a third-party, like SanDisk, to implement non Panasonic P2.
Together, just not isolated.
A buyer on an island, the favorite helpless situation where seller decide alone.
our first goal is "One voice", one significant user group expressing the P2 pricing problem, where there is no competition, just one manufacturer.
So, first step is to join the PPGUG idea, then the group buy idea is good for different reasons, please don't think just for your next P2 purchase, it is beyond that.
PPGUG and group buy is to leave your isolated buyer island to talk with a loudspeaker.
Just the fact that the group buy exists and could be potentially presented to Panasonic or dealers shake the ground; this gives a good argument for dealers discussing with Panasonic.
We are not against dealers, they are with us. We can develop this with them.
When a dealer claims a very few margin and when a french dealer can cut price by half. There is a BIG problem. You are in front of a monopolistic situation.
Because a manufacturer sells a memory product (not a video product) which is unique.
A powerful PPGUG, (thousands of members, with a chart presented to Panasonic, recognized) can do tremendous things:
1) We can present a cash group buy (US and Europe) to Panasonic where a deal can be obtained from Panasonic giving an extra discount to PPGUG friendly dealers in a sort of a special P2 operation.
That won't be the first time a manufacturer participate to a discount program.
2) We can even ask a third-party, like SanDisk, to implement non Panasonic P2.
Together, just not isolated.
A buyer on an island, the favorite helpless situation where seller decide alone.
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Jenny,
This site is sponsored and endorsed by Panasonic and the dealers you see in the banners. I think you need to rethink the "revolution" you are trying to start and at least not do it on this board. This group has been working very hard to develop relationships with Panasonic and dealers/servicers who spend a lot of valuable time to help this group. You will hurt those relationships by even trying to do what you are doing. There is a lot of good will that is already being eroded.
David
This site is sponsored and endorsed by Panasonic and the dealers you see in the banners. I think you need to rethink the "revolution" you are trying to start and at least not do it on this board. This group has been working very hard to develop relationships with Panasonic and dealers/servicers who spend a lot of valuable time to help this group. You will hurt those relationships by even trying to do what you are doing. There is a lot of good will that is already being eroded.
David
Jennyparis
Well-known member
I perfectly understand this. Am aware of my specific position.
Are we in democracy here? or royalty? (royalties, for sure!)
Yesterday, you proposed your help about P2, and even a discount, and today, your find my initiative almost "out of law"?
But, you advise to bend the back?
- What do you answer to those finding P2 pricing not very clear and fair?
- Does P2 pricing monopoly and discrepancy a taboo subject?
- If Mr. Panasonic lives here, we welcome an informative feedback, please!
- Does a UserGroup a bad thing for Panasonic?
- A group buy is forbidden?
- Do you think personaly that P2 price is okay for end users?
- When you proposed to almost give away your low margin, this is not a sign of both your understanding and your interest here?
A users forum sponsored by Panasonic is great for us and for Panasonic !
We got our own free technical support, finding here expert/power users answering the most common or tricky aspect, being a "nice help" before emailing/calling Panasonic tech sup.
This is a very well-maintained forum, where I can be kicked-out, wiped away, advised or counselled by the moderators. Isn't it?
In this story, everyone is a winner.
My positive thinking is a WIN-WIN-WIN proposition (Panny/dealers/End-Users)
PS to David: I answered right away all your posts directed to me, you simply ignore my questions about CinePorter.
Are we in democracy here? or royalty? (royalties, for sure!)
Yesterday, you proposed your help about P2, and even a discount, and today, your find my initiative almost "out of law"?
But, you advise to bend the back?
- What do you answer to those finding P2 pricing not very clear and fair?
- Does P2 pricing monopoly and discrepancy a taboo subject?
- If Mr. Panasonic lives here, we welcome an informative feedback, please!
- Does a UserGroup a bad thing for Panasonic?
- A group buy is forbidden?
- Do you think personaly that P2 price is okay for end users?
- When you proposed to almost give away your low margin, this is not a sign of both your understanding and your interest here?
A users forum sponsored by Panasonic is great for us and for Panasonic !
We got our own free technical support, finding here expert/power users answering the most common or tricky aspect, being a "nice help" before emailing/calling Panasonic tech sup.
This is a very well-maintained forum, where I can be kicked-out, wiped away, advised or counselled by the moderators. Isn't it?
In this story, everyone is a winner.
My positive thinking is a WIN-WIN-WIN proposition (Panny/dealers/End-Users)
PS to David: I answered right away all your posts directed to me, you simply ignore my questions about CinePorter.
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