Percentage of Mac versus PC Users of HVX200

[David Saraceno]

An esteemed (and venerable) colleague whose last name is a color remarked in an email to me that 80% percent of HVX200 owners edit on a Macintosh.

Anybody seen something to confirm this?

If it is true, any idea why Panasonic tends to support the PC platform more extensively?

I'm not trying to bash anybody, but it is easier to provide firmware updates, p2 viewers, etc. on a PC than a Mac?

 

[Barry_Green]

My evidence comes from surveys done at packed houses at HVX BootCamps, and at training seminars held across Oceania and southeast Asia.

any idea why Panasonic tends to support the PC platform more extensively?

Panasonic is a PC company, they build and manufacture PCs. It's what they know, it's what they use, it's what they make.

I think it's short-sighted of them to not have more dedicated Mac support, but who could have predicted that a computer platform with 5% of the desktop market would end up capturing something like 80% of the HVX users? Blew me away when we did the survey at the BootCamps, but at every BootCamp we've seen similar response. The lowest was 67% Mac, the highest was 95% Mac.

In other countries it was more evenly split, usually no higher than 2/3 Mac, often 50/50. Still an amazing market penetration for a platform that has only 5% of the desktop market. Macs have always had a higher-than-normal level of penetration in the creative arts, but on the DVX we saw a maximum of about 35% Mac vs. 75% PC, so this reversal for the HVX is startling.

On the bigger cameras I believe the percentage of Mac users is nowhere near as high, but on the HVX it does seem like the percentage of Mac users is extraordinarily high.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Here is a nice little POLL for an informal count; and please everyone, we know that PC is better than MAC and that MAC is all hype and image, so no flame wars.

 

[David Saraceno]

Thanks Mr. Green.

One thing I've always wondered is why in the creative area, PC companies fall back on market share overall. Take all the PCs out of the word processing pools, and market share changes.

Factor in the creative markets, and it just lacks some good insight into customer service.

 

[David Saraceno]

Here is a nice little POLL for an informal count; and please everyone, we know that PC is better than MAC and that MAC is all hype and image, so no flame wars.

Heyyyyy

Who hijacked this thread?

Thanks John; this should be interesting.

 

[Jennyparis]

Apple market share is not 5 but 3.6 percent in the US and slipped to 2 percent WW (Gartner June 2006).

Apple has always the sexyness and the readytogo-iness, but PC is more configurable, you can taylor yourself your super Desktop Video Station.

With integrator skills, PC components are cheaper,
Bus technology evolves faster, CPU too.
Graphic engines richer on PC (Nvidia )
Apple abandoned IBM RISC based CPU to join the Intel bandwagon.

Just two kinds of users. Expectations differs.

Have a PC with Nvidia double head with 2 EIZO S2410W (24" 1920x1200=HD)
And Sony VAIO dual core SZ serie.

 

[KyleProhaska]

My evidence comes from surveys done at packed houses at HVX BootCamps, and at training seminars held across Oceania and southeast Asia.


Panasonic is a PC company, they build and manufacture PCs. It's what they know, it's what they use, it's what they make.

I think it's short-sighted of them to not have more dedicated Mac support, but who could have predicted that a computer platform with 5% of the desktop market would end up capturing something like 80% of the HVX users? Blew me away when we did the survey at the BootCamps, but at every BootCamp we've seen similar response. The lowest was 67% Mac, the highest was 95% Mac.

In other countries it was more evenly split, usually no higher than 2/3 Mac, often 50/50. Still an amazing market penetration for a platform that has only 5% of the desktop market. Macs have always had a higher-than-normal level of penetration in the creative arts, but on the DVX we saw a maximum of about 35% Mac vs. 75% PC, so this reversal for the HVX is startling.

On the bigger cameras I believe the percentage of Mac users is nowhere near as high, but on the HVX it does seem like the percentage of Mac users is extraordinarily high.

The Mac numbers dont suprise me at all because if you took out PC's connection to businesses, where companies buy 1000's of PC's at a time, unlike the few companies that buy Macs for everywhere (ive never heard of one). If you took filmmakers and compared that I can understand that Mac would be much higher but from an over all desktop market standpoint, they aren't used widely in offices and things like that so that 5% is almost soley creative folks, some students, and maybe the occational normal household user that has been a devouted mac user. Idk just my take, I just recently switched to Mac anyways. I thought of selling it yesterday after having second thoughts but im gonna give it another chance.

- Kyle

 

[ozduc]

and please everyone, we know that PC is better than MAC and that MAC is all hype and image, so no flame wars.

LOL! It's a good thing nobody is firing the first shot:engel017:

 

[David Saraceno]

Jenny:

You've missed my point. Marketshare is factoring in the business/word processing secretarial pools.

That's what I emphasized initially and what Kyle has restated.

It doesn't have much relevance to creative market share, or video market share.

You can see that by what Barry is reporting at the Bootcamps.

I'm not trying to sell the Mac; I'm trying to understand why Panasonic "appears" to have miscalculated the support needs of roughly two thirds of its user base for the HVX200.

 

[David Saraceno]

but PC is more configurable, you can taylor yourself your super Desktop Video Station.

With integrator skills, PC components are cheaper,
Bus technology evolves faster, CPU too.
Graphic engines richer on PC (Nvidia )
Apple abandoned IBM RISC based CPU to join the Intel bandwagon.

Given that Apple uses mostly stock PC components and Intel makes or designs its motherboards, not certain why you maintain this.

My Mac has a stock nVidia in it as well.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Heyyyyy

Who hijacked this thread?

Thanks John; this should be interesting.

Hey ! That was me who added the poll !

Apple market share is not 5 but 3.6 percent in the US and slipped to 2 percent WW (Gartner June 2006).

Apple has always the sexyness and the readytogo-iness, but PC is more configurable, you can taylor yourself your super Desktop Video Station.

With integrator skills, PC components are cheaper,
Bus technology evolves faster, CPU too.
Graphic engines richer on PC (Nvidia )
Apple abandoned IBM RISC based CPU to join the Intel bandwagon.

Just two kinds of users. Expectations differs.

Have a PC with Nvidia double head with 2 EIZO S2410W (24" 1920x1200=HD)
And Sony VAIO dual core SZ serie.

This is generally how I see it.

 

[ozduc]

If Apple was to drop their pricing structure to be more in line with PC's they would certainly take a bigger chunk out of the market share!

 

[Sunstream]

Get over it. People use whats best for them. How many programs to you watch and say, hey that was made on a mac, or that was made on a PC. There is no competition, only preference. I love my Macs and yes I also run windows on them. I do not claim to be enlightened or better. Its just my choice and I am extremely happy with it. I am sure there are PC guys who will say the same. Better is in how you use it. This is the same with cameras. Tools do not make the job better, operators do, but tools can certainly make it easier. Its all about ease.

 

[Sunstream]

HVX has less than a 5% share of camera sales, therefore it must suck as a camera.

 

[David Saraceno]

If Apple was to drop their pricing structure to be more in line with PC's they would certainly take a bigger chunk out of the market share!

Go to Dell and price a comparable outfitted Dell with what a MacPro 2.66 Ghz Dual Xeon has out of the box.

The Apple will be cheaper and have more features by about $1,000.00 less. Make certain you use the 2.66 Xeon choice, and it comes out at $3500 versus $2499.00 for the Mac.

A little more if you don't factor in the virus protection.

But you don't get Microsoft Office with it.

Cheaper PCs are that. Cheaper.

The same is with all equipment, so this isn't bashing PCs.

Compare similarly priced Sylvania plasmas with Pioneer Elite plasmas.

Why can't Pioneer Elite get in line with the price structure of Sylvania?

res ipsa loquitur

 

[Bob Hill]

You might want to add to the poll the option of using both a Mac and a PC. I use a PC laptop and a Mac workstation for my workflow. I am surprised by how many more people are using the Mac though. Not having P2 card support on their laptops really in a hinderance in workflow.

 

[TwistedLincoln]

Go to Dell and price a comparable outfitted Dell with what a MacPro 2.66 Ghz Dual Xeon has out of the box.

The Apple will be cheaper and have more features by about $1,000.00 less. Make certain you use the 2.66 Xeon choice, and it comes out at $3500 versus $2499.00 for the Mac.

A little more if you don't factor in the virus protection.

But you don't get Microsoft Office with it.

Cheaper PCs are that. Cheaper.

The same is with all equipment, so this isn't bashing PCs.

Compare similarly priced Sylvania plasmas with Pioneer Elite plasmas.

Why can't Pioneer Elite get in line with the price structure of Sylvania?

res ipsa loquitur

I totally agree...except you miss another choice: building your own PC. It is true that a decent business-grade name brand PC will be more expensive than a Mac. But a decent custom-built machine you put together yourself can compete any day. Is one better than the other? I really don't think so, with the exception of the fact that a custom-built PC will use all standard parts, so upgrades and repairs will go smoothly.


This thread is an excellent example of a sad fact: Panasonic makes no attempt whatsoever to support Linux. This is sad, considering that it would take them almost no effort to do so (releasing a closed-source P2 driver, for example, wouldn't take much more than releasing one for the Intel-based Macs).

While it is true that there aren't many options for editing High-Def footage from the HVX on Linux, that doesn't mean that Panasonic couldn't at least unofficially support it. Throw some untested drivers up there and say "don't ask us for help with this," and I'd be happy. It would be great to be able to offload P2 cards to my laptop running Linux, as I could automate it much easier (without needing P2 Genie, or the like), and I would have no reason to run Windows on that unit at at. As it is, I have to dual-boot, just so I can offload P2 without inturrupting shooting.

While Mac OS's licensing is certainly more flexible than Windows', the fundamental differences between MacOS and Linux aren't too big. If even a small fraction of HVX users that use Macs demand some leway from Panasonic, perhaps it will happen. Remember, Macs can dual-boot Linux too...

 

[J.R. Hudson]

LOL! It's a good thing nobody is firing the first shot:engel017:

I was wondering if someone got that ! :tongue:

Get over it. People use whats best for them.

I don't think anyone is stressing about it and I'm not seeing this turn into any sort of flame war; we've been there, done that.

Just taking an informal Poll.

You might want to add to the poll the option of using both a Mac and a PC. I use a PC laptop and a Mac workstation for my workflow. I am surprised by how many more people are using the Mac though. Not having P2 card support on their laptops really in a hinderance in workflow.

I considered that but stuck with the 'What generally describes your situation?' for more specific choices

 

[syberfilm]

The dark side

The dark side

I edit on the PC with my HVX.... So one for the dark side...... Bill gates is Evil.. Yet I find him attractive.. Is that wrong?

 

[Cynic821]

im confused somewhat, im on a Mac of course (4 of em) but i dont see what Panasonic is doing on the PC for the HVX that it isnt doin on the Mac. My HVX works perfectly on my Mac (theres not much they need to do together besides mount the P2 card) Which now works perfectly fine with some new beta hardware