Venting (but I paid $8K to do it)

K

KellyFH

Member
Kinda bummed. Had my HVX200 for about 3 weeks now, bought the Firestore 100 at the same time.

After about the equivalent of 4 days use, the Firestore goes down (actualy freezes on 'Please Wait') ...so here I am, requesting an RMI from Focus Enhancements and praying the new one they send me works...

P2 cards...way too expensive and you have to stop shooting every 4 to 8 minutes.
And if you look at enough forums....there are miles of 'P2 Problem' threads as well.

And I'm thinking...what's my backup plan when I'm hours from home with a cast and crew in hotel rooms, on set, and the 'new' Firestore breaks into perpetual 'Please Wait' as well....then what do I do? Pay people while B&H or Spec Comm ship me a new one...bail out on HD and shoot Mini-DV with my new $6000 HD camera?

Then I ponder...why did I, one of the human animals here, rush so intently to buy this new piece of technology? One that, at best, is 'shaky'...it records easily, reliably,
and inexpensively...to nothing.

Did the manufacturers of these products fill my small brain pan with such a good sell job...or was it the lure of the candy store...getting this Holy Grail that thumbed its nose at....tape.

I look...and at about 30 days out from a big project, I am wracked with uncertainty, fear and anxiety....at this state of the art, cutting edge masterpiece that I bow before with trembling hands....quietly and humbly begging it: 'please work'.

I hold my head high and piously point my finger at the one to blame......myself.

Panasonic...Focus Enhancements....P2 Store....Cineporter....and whoever comes up with the 'greatest thing ever' next week....wish me luck.
 
Been shooting with p2 cards since March without an incident.

It's rare that I need to shoot more than 10 minutes continuously for 720/24pn.

I don't see many posts about issues with p2 cards here, and the technology is older than the cam.
 
Your excuse of "having to stop shooting" to switch out cards is bogus. Unless you are shooting a documentary at which point your needs suit something different.

I have been on two campaign commercials now that deal with interviews, and we have had no problems needing to switch cards.

Be it tape, film, P2...its not like reloading is a foreign concept.
 
"And if you look at enough forums....there are miles of 'P2 Problem' threads as well."

Not sure which forum you go to, but I think most people that use p2's are quite happy. I don't think there are miles of P2 problems, actually quite the opposite.
I have 2 4gig p2's, enough to record 16mn at 720 24fps or 8mn at 1080 24fps.
 
I've been shooting on the cards flawlessly for about 11 months now.

I don't know that I've ever seen a thread with a legitimate P2 problem. There've been plenty of threads where someone ingested the footage incorrectly or whatever, but as far as an actual problem with recording on the cards? I don't know if there's ever been a case of that.
 
After using P2's, I'd never go back to tape.
Some people get the workflow and others don't.

Not a problem if it isn't your cup of tea.
 
sorry youre having problems kelly, but im about 4 months in with hvx and p2s and ive had narry a spec of trouble.
 
Been using P2 for a bit - haven't had any issues outside of a couple incomplete clips - which always scares me more than it should.
 
.....

.....

...hey fellas....no biggie....and really not trying to ingnite a P2 vs. Firestore debate

we're shooting a feature, and we traditionally like to shoot long passes (which way back when was one of the pros of shooting digi vid over film)

.....the, what....frustration?....is that there's this element of 'do this', 'no, no, do THIS'....with no clear 'only one answer, and it works'

the act of so many decisions to make....just to simply acquire an image....is exhausting

your comments have been helpful, tho...and we'll probably bite it and record to P2's simultaneously with Firestore (kind of like putting $2 on every horse in the race just to be safe)
 
KellyFH said:
Kinda bummed. Had my HVX200 for about 3 weeks now, bought the Firestore 100 at the same time.

After about the equivalent of 4 days use, the Firestore goes down (actualy freezes on 'Please Wait') ...so here I am, requesting an RMI from Focus Enhancements and praying the new one they send me works...

P2 cards...way too expensive and you have to stop shooting every 4 to 8 minutes.
And if you look at enough forums....there are miles of 'P2 Problem' threads as well.
Click to expand...

Where are these threads. There occasionally have been problems when importing P2 footage because of other errors (I myself had an issue because I had too many USB devices plugged in) but I really haven't seen ANY problems with the P2 cards themselves and this includes my near 6 months of using them. Part of the reason these things are expensive is because they are made to be 100% reliable and last. If one of mine dies then I'll sure as hell be pissed and ready to kill some people but so far the performance of the cards has delivered everything they were supposed to (knock on wood).

As for switching out, have you ever worked with film? Ever had to switch out the magazine of a 16mm camera. It's a hell of a lot more of a pain trust me. P2 just means you'll need another guy on the set if you want to shoot a lot of footage in one day (just like you would for 16mm). You'll need someone with a laptop to swap out between the cards and offload. You can easily get by with 2 4 gig cards and a cheap laptop (which wouldn't run you much more than the Firestore).

And I'm thinking...what's my backup plan when I'm hours from home with a cast and crew in hotel rooms, on set, and the 'new' Firestore breaks into perpetual 'Please Wait' as well....then what do I do? Pay people while B&H or Spec Comm ship me a new one...bail out on HD and shoot Mini-DV with my new $6000 HD camera?
Click to expand...

That's the price you pay for hard drive solutions. I know a lot of people who say the FS-100 works great (ask BenB) but it's still a hard drive and so it's not gonna be fullproof. Niether is tape for that matter. Or P2. P2 just happens to be the most reliable solution.

Then I ponder...why did I, one of the human animals here, rush so intently to buy this new piece of technology? One that, at best, is 'shaky'...it records easily, reliably,
and inexpensively...to nothing.
Click to expand...

P2 isn't shakey. It's really not. When it was announced the FS-100 would support native frame rates, I had a long debate whether or not get one or another P2 card. I looked at a lot of threads and I fond enough for the FS-100 to warrent some concern (not nearly as much as I would have thought though), but found none with P2 and had no trouble with P2 myself.

As for why we bought it, many of us did so because we want something that will last. I could have bought a DVX100 or XL2 and they'd be great SD cameras but I wanted something that I knew would still be comparible several years down the line. When I shell out $6000, I wanna know I'll still get milage out of this thing for a while.
 
KellyFH said:
...hey fellas....no biggie....and really not trying to ingnite a P2 vs. Firestore debate

we're shooting a feature, and we traditionally like to shoot long passes (which way back when was one of the pros of shooting digi vid over film)

.....the, what....frustration?....is that there's this element of 'do this', 'no, no, do THIS'....with no clear 'only one answer, and it works'

the act of so many decisions to make....just to simply acquire an image....is exhausting

your comments have been helpful, tho...and we'll probably bite it and record to P2's simultaneously with Firestore (kind of like putting $2 on every horse in the race just to be safe)
Click to expand...

What type of a fluid master is longer then 10 minutes?

excuses.
 
Sounds frustrating indeed. I have not used the FS-100, nor would I use it. Especially after having used P2. IMO, nothing could be easier, and more convienent. I has an FS-4 for my DVX, and it worked great- AFTER I spent about a week testing it out, and figuring out the workflow. The tech support at FE was awful- as I would try and get some help from them, and they would just tell me that they've never heard of that problem before. But I digress.

Unless you are trying to shoot long format- P2 will be just fine. But if you are shooting dramatic work, which it sounds like you are, I can't see why this would be an issue- as with 2 4GB cards you could go for 16min in 720PN. That impresses me that the actors can go that long without droping a line, and hitting all of their marks- that must be quite a scene that you have going if it lasts that long.

Anyway, I hope you are able to figure something out- as there is nothing worse then feeling unconfident about the gear you are using. (Although from my own expierence, P2 has been more reliable the when I was using tape.)
 
The Sarlacc said:
What type of a fluid master is longer then 10 minutes?

excuses.
Click to expand...

A wedding where the client wants the ceremony shot in it's entirety uninterrupted for one.

This is the scenario I shot last weekend with the Firestore; shot in video mode 720p 60. Couple of brief moments where I was able to stop record to watch the FS100 progress bar "reassure" me everything was cool. Shot 3 half hour passes without a hitch.

One and only thing that bugs me about the Firestore since getting it in August...it can take a helluva long time to power up when you've been using it in sunlight. All pure sun here last weekend but the temp never got over 65. Can be extremely frustrating if you need to power up quick for a shot.

Aside from this one gripe, I'm liking the FS alot. Can't wait for F.E.'s update (next month?)...$39.00 and we double the Firestore's capacity.

- John
 
John J. said:
A wedding where the client wants the ceremony shot in it's entirety uninterrupted for one.

- John
Click to expand...

A wedding is not a fluid master. A wedding is an event, which, if you go back to my first post I mention if you are doing certain projects your needs may warrant different solutions.

This person has stated they are shooting a feature.

Two completely different scenarios.
 
Just another testimonial about P2 cards.

Been shooting now for a few months on a veritè style documentary.
Using 3 P2 8 gig cards and the P2 Store.

Flawless.
 
I shot a wedding a few weekends ago w/ 3 4 gig P2 cards (someone elses). Been shooting a doc w/ 1 4gig card but just ordered the 2nd. We can shoot continuously on 2 with the right setup, but it can be hair-raising.

I used a firestore a few weeks ago and it scared the crap out of me - didn't know if it was actually getting anything or not, it never said. I was unhappy about that, but apparently it did, so if I did enough tests w/ it to KNOW that it was recording what I sent, I would probably be more comfortable using one. As for now, I prefer P2.
 
I've had a camera assistant flash a $1000 load of film. No shots recoverable, but it all worked out.

I've had a DP flash a roll of 16mm film. No shots recoverable, but it all worked out.

I myself had a problem with the P2 Store not accounting for how much space it had left. I think it was an honest technical glitch, but I can't say for certain it wasn't operator error. Ultimately lost two "reels". No shots recoverable and I didn't make the Horrorfest deadline. Still have to reshoot, but all will work out.

No matter how high-tech or low-tech the process of filmmaking is these kind of things can always happen. My FS-4 used to scare the hell out of me, but always worked fine. Film has always scared the hell out of me as well. With film it can be days before you know somebody has screwed up.

I'm a film-guy in a digital world. I'm just going to have to adapt or fade away. Many others will do the same as well.
 
Unless you are trying to shoot long format- P2 will be just fine. But if you are shooting dramatic work, which it sounds like you are, I can't see why this would be an issue- as with 2 4GB cards you could go for 16min in 720PN.
Click to expand...

Actually you'll get 20 minutes in 24pN.
 
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