HVX Solution We've All been waiting for - iStore

What we really need is a pocket sized similar to the P2 Store, but more shock resitant and with a faster transfer speed. Maybe with a FW800 or eSata for dumping to a computer and perhaps a an internal drive that's at least 7200 rpm with a 16MB Cache - hope fully retailing for somehwere in the $600 - $800 Range
 
Has anyone mentioned if you can still do Variable Framerates with any of these methods? Archos, iPod, etc?
 
Nathan Beaman said:
Here it is, the HVX solution we’ve all been looking for – a cheap, reliable and personally I think better alternative to finicky P2 Stores
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Nathan this is a real slick device for dumping to ipod. I think its great if you have an 4th Gen. ipod and don't want to carry around another drive for in camera P2 dumping.

But a better alternative to P2 Store I totally disagree. The ability for me to get the cards away from the camera to be transferred while I am still shooting with my other cards is paramount to my workflow.

I also do not have the luxury in the field of a flimsy firewire connection as a permanent connection to an external HD pack or Firestore. So that is out.

Still, you have a neat little device, but here is to me what would be fantastic:

A small box with a PCMCIA card slot that will let you strap an ipod to it. A cable running to the ipod from the slot reader. A small but simple app to review contents and control specifics of the dump from the screen and controller of my ipod.

Basically an "iPodP2Store." And by the way it needs a format card button and a start and cancel button at the very least. Because the simplicity and speed of P2stores buttons and LEDs are absolutely outstanding for speed on the job.

Now if you or someone could come up with a device like that with a small app for ipod. Sell it for around $400 to $500, you've got a real winner. Or even better (but even possible?) how about a device like the cineporter, a pcmcia card with a cable to dump straight into an ipod?

Whoever puts out something like that would definitely have my attention.

Nice effort! :)


BTW - There are no finicky P2 stores, only ignorant users that harbour hatred toward LEDs and can't speak pure binary. hehe :2vrolijk_08:
 
Spank the bad beaver!!!!

Spank the bad beaver!!!!

Nathan Beaman said:
What we really need is a pocket sized similar to the P2 Store, but more shock resitant and with a faster transfer speed. Maybe with a FW800 or eSata for dumping to a computer and perhaps a an internal drive that's at least 7200 rpm with a 16MB Cache - hope fully retailing for somehwere in the $600 - $800 Range
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Whoops I posted before reading all the way through! I need to get a out the whip and flog myslef 9 times for my behind the subject post, hehehe.

I would still buy it in the $600 to $800 range especially if I can drop in hard drives!
 
I have used a half a dozen P2 Stores and they have all been very sensitive to movement of any kind. Granted the file transfer from the P2 Card pauses and resumes - it's kind of a pain if you're constantly on the move. the real gripe I've had is that this same thing has happened to me in Hotels at a desk while transering from P2 Store to external HD. I've had P2 Stores choke out of a transfer and force a restart an hour into copying just because somebody set their coffee down on the table.

The cineporter seems like a cool device because it avoids the 1394 deal and lets face it it can't possibly suck more than the Firestore. I wish there was an option that didn't invole dangling cables from the camera all the time. Hopefully larger and more affordable P2 Cards are on their way soon.

Basically we all want a P2 Store - that is faster and more reliable for a 3rd the cost.
 
Nathan Beaman said:
I have used a half a dozen P2 Stores and they have all been very sensitive to movement of any kind. Granted the file transfer from the P2 Card pauses and resumes - it's kind of a pain if you're constantly on the move.
the real gripe I've had is that this same thing has happened to me in Hotels at a desk while transering from P2 Store to external HD. I've had P2 Stores choke out of a transfer and force a restart an hour into copying just because somebody set their coffee down on the table.
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Nathan, that is just totally a total bummer, man. We must be the lucky ones here with our P2 stores because I have one of them strapped to me dumping footage while I am out humping around in the woods and rivers & beaches. We've had them dumping and moving footage flawlessly in tiny Cesnas during severe coditions. Much of the time time they are usually transferring while in a 4x4 going through some really nasty river beds or really rough roads on to the next destination. We have never lost a second of footage, ever....

I'm not saying its never going to happen. But it has been an extremely succesful product for us. The price is a little steep at over $1,500+ though given its current onboard functionality.

Nathan Beaman said:
Basically we all want a P2 Store - that is faster and more reliable for a 3rd the cost.
Click to expand...
A p2 store device for and ipod or blank drives 1/3 the price that was as reliable and durable as our p2 stores and also be somewhat "expendable"? Super!!!

The ability to playback and delete clips directly on the p2 store directly would be just fabulous! A tough protected inset LCD screen and some extra buttons on top would do the trick for me.

I would love to see this P2 store also have an easy access door/slot for the hard drive to be able to take off the shelf 2.5" drives, format them properly and let me just keep dumping drives. Probably wishful thinking though...

But if Pansonic produced the P2store v.2.0 with the above specs, at least the p2 ops, we would buy one or even two and we would pay $900-$1,100+ if that's what it took for it to be on market. I hope someone from panasonic is listening.

Just pleeeaassseee leave all the LEDs there. I DON'T want to be distracted looking at an LCD for fast status info.
 
Nathan Beaman said:
I've had P2 Stores choke out of a transfer and force a restart an hour into copying just because somebody set their coffee down on the table.
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I have yet to experience that here on our desk, though often I have the p2store resting on top of its little Optech Neoprene bag when dumping to mac. Maybe it might help to have that p2 store sitting on an old mousepad a thin piece of padding or something. Just a thought.....
 
That's good to hear. Just did a 7 camera (all HVX) off road racing shoot for ESPN in the mounatins of colorado. Every P2 Store we bought and rented had the same issues - 1 even died completly taking everything with it. Thanks God it happened before the cards were formatted.

What about taking the iPod USB camera adapter and the USB to PCMCIA adapter that is coming out and working the 2 of those together? Sounds like I'm getting silly, but just a thought. The Apple P2 Store basically.

I'll have to give the P2 Store another try. Thanks
 
Nathan Beaman said:
That's good to hear. Just did a 7 camera (all HVX) off road racing shoot for ESPN in the mounatins of colorado. Every P2 Store we bought and rented had the same issues - 1 even died completly taking everything with it. Thanks God it happened before the cards were formatted.
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Well this beaver would be thumping his tail on a log, if that happened here. Nathan, was it the hard drive that crashed or was it the electronics of the P2 store that failed???

I mean, ipods have hard drives and goodness apple even put out a snow jacket a while back for skiing/boarding ipod listeners. What are the thresholds for hard drive armature/head movement while in transit???

To have that many p2stores get that freaked out in transit, I don't know what to say.

Nathan Beaman said:
What about taking the iPod USB camera adapter and the USB to PCMCIA adapter that is coming out and working the 2 of those together? Sounds like I'm getting silly, but just a thought. The Apple P2 Store basically.
Click to expand...
Nothing silly at all there. Now take and have a little app to view and cut clips on the ipod and this beaver would definitely be hooked!!!

:beer:
 
...that a Firestore sticks you with by making you use 24p at 59.94 over 24pn mode (1394 external is disabled while shooting in 24pn mode - making it impossible to utilize an external 1394 record device)

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Well, as of the 3.0 update that's not true, as the FS-100 will record in Native mode.

And I've been using my FS-100 in some VERY harsh outdoor conditions for a few months now, never had a problem. It is a very robust device. And using right angled Firewire cables, and 2 minutes of my brain, I've never had a Firewire cable/connection problem in the dozens and dozens and dozens of hours I've been shooting with it.
 
a friend of mine has had 4 iPods dying on him (only misc on them). So I would never touch such a thing with my footage.

I cannot believe nobody made a thirdparty-P2-Store yet for under 1.000. For an electronic-engineer this cannot be a real tough task. PCMCIA-slot - SATA bus and a little chip that is controlled by the buttons. Where is the tough part? maybe the licensing by Panasonic? n fact everyone I speak with has one problem with the HVX: P2 is too expensive. So IMO Panasonic either wants to make money with the P2 and not the camera, or they are simply not getting it: people who shoot with $ 3,- tapes don´t wanna spend $ 5.000 for a few P2 cards and a P2 Store.
And if they say the HVX is not aimed at people who shoot with $ 3 -tapes, then why are we discussing here if the JVC-HD200 the Canon A1 or the Sony HDVs are any good? Is the HVX sooooo much superior that Panasonic can afford NOT to penetrate the market . Especially when they are the lone star in the P2 world?
SONY is kicking their butt right now with the DR60. The whole tapeless argument is right now killing P2, because the others make it faster, cheaper NOW.

If the Ipod works for some great, but as others stated: you have to be able to continue shooting.
 
The Sony HVR-DR60 is just a fantastic bit of kit by the look of it. Makes the firestore look cheap and overpriced. A shame the HVR-DR60 can't record DVCPROHD because if it did I would buy one as soon as they are available.
 
alpi69 said:
I cannot believe nobody made a thirdparty-P2-Store yet for under 1.000. For an electronic-engineer this cannot be a real tough task. PCMCIA-slot - SATA bus and a little chip that is controlled by the buttons. Where is the tough part? maybe the licensing by Panasonic? n fact
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A 3rd party P2 store that was actually up to quality and reliability or even better than P2store would be great.

I think the originator of this post has a good thing going and shared a solution and a good step by step flow that is good for him that may work for others. Clearly he has had specific experiences with his gear and for better or worse, he adapted and overcame.

But I thought the idea here of a p2 card adapter for ipod would be just another way to dump something when you need it and its a cool idea, but nothing that should be too expensive. It really is a business question of supply/demand for someone to produce a product. Maybe if anything just an added nice priced convenience at the very least.

For me a discount iPod hookup option and a damn nice P2 store with screen, operations and all the goodies plus the existing LED structure would be lke having your cake and eating it too. I'd roll out with both.

Now put together an Epson P-4000 and the p2store and you have my money fast! :)


alpi69 said:
everyone I speak with has one problem with the HVX: P2 is too expensive. So IMO Panasonic either wants to make money with the P2 and not the camera,
or they are simply not getting it: people who shoot with $ 3,- tapes don´t wanna spend $ 5.000 for a few P2 cards and a P2 Store.
Click to expand...

In a 4 GB p2 card there's four 4 gb sd cards or chips, wired into a RAID for optimum throughput. Currently decent single 4GB SD cards can be had for $90 to $149.00 each. There's four in a card so maybe that's part of it.

So maybe Pansonic could come down on the price a little, but they still have a P2 card which someone had to design, develop, tool, manufacture and distribute, which all costs money. Over time I'm sure it will come down but I make a profit with my work, and I expect any company including Panasonic to make a profit with theirs. I see no problem with the value proposition of P2.

As for "$3 dollar tapes" I have never used those. But comparing to a $16 to $19 HDV master tape, the cheap hard drive system we have setup for our 720/30p workflow saves us half that so we have extra for our redundancy setup.

With the amount of footage and material we have put together in the last six months we had the $3,500 for our p2store and three 4GB P2 cards paid for almost instantly.

alpi69 said:
And if they say the HVX is not aimed at people who shoot with $ 3 -tapes, then why are we discussing it here.

if the JVC-HD200 the Canon A1 or the Sony HDVs are any good? Is the HVX sooooo much superior that Panasonic can afford NOT to penetrate the market . Especially when they are the lone star in the P2 world?
Click to expand...

Regarding Panasonic aiming at $3 dollar tape people, well it ain't me.

But a way to shoot DVCPRO HD format on a reliable tapeless medium thats solid state that didn't cost $35k+ at the time was very attractive to myself and our new production outfit.

So maybe $3 dollar tape people have a Sony HC3 waiting for them with their name on it. If they get some great material with it...fabulous!


alpi69 said:
SONY is kicking their butt right now with the DR60. The whole tapeless argument is right now killing P2, because the others make it faster, cheaper NOW.
Click to expand...

Sorry but when I saw that whole thing on their new drive unit it and their new offerings it made me even more relieved that we went P2 and DVCPRO-HD. And the whole spin I saw about backup on hard drive and then on tape at the same time, well I ran the numbers for myself and my partner, and compared to our current system it would be like us wiping our rears before we crapped! For our work it would be totally stupid, and to compound that, for us HDV completely sucks. Is P2 so superior? Yes in many ways it is, and that's why we use it here.

Now HDV and dual tape/hd recording with Sony or Canon & JVC solutions may be the best thing since they put corn in a can for a lot of folks out there. I think the cows have come home for the $3 tape people, and a lot of good people out there who can adapt this system to help bring their vision to life.

But for anything other than a river or crash cam, sadly their format of choice - HDV, is totally useless for our needs. Alpi, its not only the camera itself or that its another company that has us turned off here, its the medium that they chose to record to that we don't care for. Show me a Sony with Hard Drive recording that does it in a format other than HDV and I'll come by for a test drive.

I bet there are a lot of people out there trying to earn a living that feel the same way. If anything Pansonic could do a little better job helping people connect those dots in their communication with the people but thats just my take on it.

alpi69 said:
If the Ipod works for some great, but as others stated: you have to be able to continue shooting.
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No doubt, I agree there. :bath:
 
Steve Shovlar said:
A shame the HVR-DR60 can't record DVCPROHD because if it did I would buy one as soon as they are available.
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If Sony would just put something out there maybe XDCAM HD format to hard drive and HDV to tape, that would be very doable, especially if the camera itself is decent.

A Sony user could buy a couple DR60s and run a great setup with that!
 
BenB said:
...that a Firestore sticks you with by making you use 24p at 59.94 over 24pn mode (1394 external is disabled while shooting in 24pn mode - making it impossible to utilize an external 1394 record device)

---------

Well, as of the 3.0 update that's not true, as the FS-100 will record in Native mode.

And I've been using my FS-100 in some VERY harsh outdoor conditions for a few months now, never had a problem. It is a very robust device. And using right angled Firewire cables, and 2 minutes of my brain, I've never had a Firewire cable/connection problem in the dozens and dozens and dozens of hours I've been shooting with it.
Click to expand...

3.0 Update for the HVX or Firestore?
 
Sorry, I still dont get it. Loading to your ipod is not a workflow, it is a fun novelty or an emergency solution. Ask Apple, ipods are not made to be HDDs, they are made to load smallish files into cache, etc. not do large repeated file transfers. If you do a search you will find that most people who have had ipods die were using them partially as HDDs. Lets also add that the battery life while doing this is terrible.

I am not trying to be negative here, just realistic. I just dont agree at all that a P2 Store (WAY overpriced) or USB OTG (cheap but slow) are not better and SAFER options. The best option in my book is a cheap laptop.

If you dont have room for a small laptop or money for a P2 Store, you are shooting the wrong format. This is the cost of DVCproHD at this level, dont like it? Get an HDV camera =o) Cheap workarounds will only cost you clients and money in the long run...



ash =o)
 
where's the fs-100 firmware update 3.0?

where's the fs-100 firmware update 3.0?

I have been hearing a little about the firestor update ,but where's the fs-100 firmware update 3.0?

Is it just a rumor?


When will it be out?
or
Where can I find it?

What should I be expecting ?
 
I have been hearing a little about the firestor update ,but where's the fs-100 firmware update 3.0?

Is it just a rumor?
Click to expand...

Not a rumor. Focus has officially stated that the 3.0 update will support native frame rates by extracting the flagged frames on the fly. I wonder if they'll end up doing it for 1080p too. That would actually be an advantage over P2.
 
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