Questions for Jim & Graeme

I've used JVC's focus assist a lot and I LOVE it. If RED incorporated something like that I'd be a happy camper. I think it's a big step above Peaking for verification.
 
Kjetil Haugen said:
Are these tools standard stuff in most cameras these days or are these bonus features from RED. Seems there's alot of nice tools out there I havn't taken advantage of...

Thanks for the reply
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i dont know any other camera in the world that has built in waveform and rgb parade, so yes, this is definitely new in the world of cameras.

Typically youd pay many thousands of dollars to get external hardware scopes.

I assume the scopes in the RED will be software based, not hardware, but these days the software scopes are nearly as good.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Well, given the tools in the camera, you could have a spare camera for the gaffer to use as a light meter! :) A rather expensive light meter though....

Graeme
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I'll tell that to the producer next time. "Well we need a new light meter" "And I got this one picked out.." :thumbup:
 
This page shows an example of an "RGB parade" plus some other visualizations.

BTW: Re: Light meter: Isn't more interesting to know what brightness the camera see rather than how bright it may be at some location in the scene? I can understand why you would use a light meter when recording to film (since you will only get to see the result the next day), but is there really a need for it when shooting video (or digital cinema) or is it just habit? I'm just curious.
 
Warren, just think how good the JVC system is, now imagine that level of focus assist multiplied by the magic RED factor of 11, and that's just beginning to tell you how good the RED focus assist is. It's as revolutionary to focus assists as recording 4k raw to a single drive is for cameras.

Emery, I don't quite get you about software / hardware. Everything in the RED is hardware, but runs on, firmware I guess. However, they're 100% accurate for the data on the camera. They're not video scopes, they're digital data scopes!
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Warren, just think how good the JVC system is, now imagine that level of focus assist multiplied by the magic RED factor of 11, and that's just beginning to tell you how good the RED focus assist is. It's as revolutionary to focus assists as recording 4k raw to a single drive is for cameras.
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That will truly be awesome Graeme! What is the magic RED factor "11"?
 
It's like how Spinal Tap amps go to 11, and are hence louder. The Red factor goes to 11 too, and is hence bigger and better :) And redder.

Graeme
 
Hey Graeme,
Since you brought up drives, I was wondering if there would be issues with an internal or camera mounted hard drive, like vibration and bumps making the drive skip. Would that be a problem? I'm sure it's something you guys have thought of.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Emery, I don't quite get you about software / hardware. Everything in the RED is hardware, but runs on, firmware I guess. However, they're 100% accurate for the data on the camera. They're not video scopes, they're digital data scopes!
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yeah I didnt think about that too hard before saying it.

Im not up to speed on the finer points of engineering scopes, but my comparison was referring to the difference of scopes in say final cut (software) vs. scopes that run on dedicated hardware (and firmware) such as Tektronix. The latter solution costs many multiple thousands of dollars but tends to see much more detail than a software scope found in final cut or dvrack.
 
SF, the internal drive is flash [solid state, no moving parts].

The external drive is based on a laptop drive... but in my opinion, if you hit the camera hard enough on something to disrupt the drive long enough to run the buffer out, the shot's dead anyways. Handheld is one thing, but if you hit the camera on a door frame and drop it in the middle of the shot... well...
 
Brook Willard said:
SF, the internal drive is flash [solid state, no moving parts].

The external drive is based on a laptop drive... but in my opinion, if you hit the camera hard enough on something to disrupt the drive long enough to run the buffer out, the shot's dead anyways. Handheld is one thing, but if you hit the camera on a door frame and drop it in the middle of the shot... well...
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good point brook.. your kinda screwed either way.
 
That said, there is a calling for persistent footage in situations where solid-state recording is a requirement. Imagine setting up a huge practical effects shot involving explosions, flipping cars, etc... and losing it because the camera's storage system was jarred [no pun intended] just a little too much.

I read an article recently about a guy who's using the HVX-200 to record combat in Iraq. He opted against tape-based recording because of its tendency to crap out during intense vibration or during explosions. He admired the camera's ability [when recording to solid-state memory] to keep an image while dealing with significant shock-waves. I've personally used DV in the past to record large-scale WWII sequences and lost a few cameras for about 15 frames after a particularly large charge went off.

Here's another example of a HD screwing up during a big bump

All that said, I imagine the external HD-based drive will have a fairly significant buffer. Maybe the RED's internal drive could be used as a buffer... who knows?

But for 99% of shooting... my prior point remains.
 
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Graeme_Nattress said:
Warren, just think how good the JVC system is, now imagine that level of focus assist multiplied by the magic RED factor of 11, and that's just beginning to tell you how good the RED focus assist is. It's as revolutionary to focus assists as recording 4k raw to a single drive is for cameras.
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Having used JVC's great focus assist system on the GY-HD101E, this is very exciting to me! Can't wait to see just how you guys are going to do it, but razor sharp focus at 4K with an intuitive system straight off the monitor is going to be almost as significant as the 4K recording option itself.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
I don't think you need a light meter - just the waveform, histogram and focus assist in the EVF. They'll tell you all you need to know, live with real accurate data from the sensor. And yes, I think RGB parade is in the specs too.
Graeme
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Maybe for exposing the camera, but I would commit suicide if I had to use the camera to setup the lights. I don't want to be running back and forth between the camera and the set to see if a specific light is too hot.

Unless of course there was a nice big 50" TV which I could clearly see from behind the light, or a remote lightweight solution for monitoring as I move around the set.
 
Emery Wells said:
RGB parade just breaks out a waveform into individual color channels. This is important for greenscreen because you need to make sure you are getting the proper amount of separation between the channels.
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Yep, exactly why I was wondering about this earlier too, Emery.

I learned this at that Pixel Corps class we attended. But I have to admit that I couldn't remember if the secondary issue (after maximizing the difference between green and red/blue) was underexposure or overexposure of the green screen.

Up with RGB parade!

Gavin
 
stokestack said:
Yep, exactly why I was wondering about this earlier too, Emery.

I learned this at that Pixel Corps class we attended. But I have to admit that I couldn't remember if the secondary issue (after maximizing the difference between green and red/blue) was underexposure or overexposure of the green screen.

Up with RGB parade!

Gavin
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Hey Gavin, I saw some of your posts in other threads, was gonna say hello. You still have the same e-mail?

And yeah it actually depends on a case by case basis, lighting set-ups and such.
 
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