Good...to go...

steve:

steve:

yeah, I agree with visceral also on the 744T and the aspects of creating hi level surround sound audio. The process you both have outlined briefly is definitely the way to go in any case. The problem with it is that it cost a lot of money to be done right. I was just pondering feasible (at least for me) alternatives of sound aquisition.

And even now, after reading visceral's post and re-reading what you wrote I realize that 4 24/48 inputs should be more than enough to create an acceptable (poor man's) soundtrack. As visceral says, if you want to be serious about your audio the RED sadly won't cut it. I still think it could do it but as Donatello puts it, it can't do everything or fill everyone's needs.

I'll be in the lookout for some type of device similar in specs to the 744T that can record hi quality multi track audio and be small enough to be fitted to the rail or cage, to be used with one of the holophone mikes in a one man operation.

Perhaps I should have said this sooner but I'm planning on making a long trip through Mexico with my Red. I'd love to have my imagery accentuated by rich surround sound. Now I just hope I'll have enough money for a proper sound crew.

Again, thanks for your patience.
 
all the 5.1/7.1 surround sound you hear at your local movie theater = all audio during production was MONO .. the surround sound was/is created in POST not during filming ...
 
donatello said:
all the 5.1/7.1 surround sound you hear at your local movie theater = all audio during production was MONO .. the surround sound was/is created in POST not during filming ...
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i was actually talking pf something in the likes of the holophone mike.
 
The Holophone mic is priced at around $6,000. HOW MUCH OF A BARGAIN are you guys looking for?

Having read up on audio (will i ever learn enough?) i think its great that there will be four xlr connections. If they can provide the same quality of pre-amp in the camera as fitted in the sound devices 744t then would that in itself not make Red a revolutionary camera in visual and audio.

For run and gun and one man operation situations it could avoid the need for mixers/recorders in some situations. Two lavs and a shotgun and a spare for ambient, can we possibly ask for more!! (all theory thinking from me).

Michael
 
The best place for a mic is as near as possible to the sound source. Holographic micing techniques can sound wonderful, but for specialist applications, not movie making. It would be like shooting a movie with a 360 degree fisheye, whereas we choose narrower lenses to focus the viewers attention - otherwise know as "directing". Similarly, microphones are are used to focus the audio to what you want the audience to hear.

Now, if you're recording a classical concert..... But we're not, we're making a movie.
 
Graeme knows best

Graeme knows best

My knowledge is puny compared to Graeme's and Jim's. Jim is marketing Red as a solution for most everyone (even photographers).
But we're not, we're making a movie.
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Graeme is indicating that the purpose is for making movies. I understand that you can't make something that is all things to all people.

Many people are interested if the audio portion of Red's development will push the envelope or be status quo.

I would like a flexible camera. I am my own one man company. I make nature movies. I don't have a sound crew or editing crew. I do everything myself. Something like the holophone would make things easier on me.

I understand production companies have all kinds of mics and record most of the sound in a studio during post production. That is not my world or my budget.

Holographic micing techniques can sound wonderful, but for specialist applications, not movie making.
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Why exclude specalists, if that is what I am? Could the Red team add a sound expert to the team to work on the audio aspect of the camera? I don't know much about audio, but I would like a simple solution for recording surround sound (without a sound crew.)

Thankyou all for your input, especially Graeme.

Click the link below to see all the people that use the holophone. Are they all specalists?
http://holophone.com/action.html
If it is good enough for The Church of Scientology, it is good enough for me.
 

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Why not go with a binaural system then, or a crossed pair, or tetrahedral arrangement, or spaced pair. You only need two mics for 3d sound. All of which you could record on the camera, or to an external box if you so want.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Why not go with a binaural system then, or a crossed pair, or tetrahedral arrangement, or spaced pair. You only need two mics for 3d sound. All of which you could record on the camera, or to an external box if you so want.
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As usual the man is right. I've been doing research all morning on surround sound field recording and that's where it led me too.

Thanks for helping me understand.

Cheers!
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
(thinking a moment) You know, I guess anything is possible, but personally if you are that serious about good sound I would recommend an AAton Cantor-X. This mixer/recorder is as good as it gets and is flawless with surround sound.;

Jay
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Recording a good usable 5.1 audio is quite an ordeal. Doing it with an on camera mike and expecting it to work would require a huge amount of luck.

Having said this (and thinking a moment): If the bandwidt provides space enough for 6 audiostreams in 24bit/48KHz when for example shooting in windowed whatever, then a breakout port with more audio inputs would be nice.

You would have to still be working with a soundguy, but he´d record not to the (hugly expensive) AAton, but directly to picture, facilitating a lot of things.

Of course, running around the jungle with six microphones attached to the camera would feel like playing the cello in a marching band (courtesy Woddy Allen).

Jochen
 
Guuuuys!!!

The cam is supposed to be as light and as small as it can be, at the same time incorporating the most important functions. I know few things about audio and there is no way one could fit in surround sound at the same level of quality as the picture is.
I got the feeling the company is devoted to making the best camera, not mini recording studio.

4k digital cine camera is here.
Surround sound onboard seems to me as pushing it.

Dreaming is ok. This one is too far.
For now.
 
omen said:
The cam is supposed to be as light and as small as it can be,
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Yep. Hopefully it does NOT include a built in microphone.

My fear is: The specs state 4 audio channels in 16 or 24 bit. That´s cool, but if there are only 2 inputs it means that you are limited to 2 good outboard mikes plus the usual (in cannot call it anything other but) "built in stereo recording capability".

Again: Recording 4 audio streams is great. I´m quite satisfied with that - if I can access them.

Jochen
 
But for 5.1 sound you, theoretically, only need 2 mics and some nice processing in post/ If you want height information recorded also, you need 4 mics.

Even for 5.1 you'd never need 6 mics, as that .1 is just post added effects anyway, and even if not, it's derived from the main audio.

Remember how many ears we have :-)

Graeme
 
You know how stereo is on your TV, directly infront of you. Why not have 6 channels of audio directly in front of you. Sure, you have two ears. But know matter how many channels, you still hear it with two ears. Think of how many things make noise! That's a lot too. It doesn't have to surround you, it could be in front of you, to direct your attention.

I guess stereo will do for me though.
 
I think you need to listent to some goood binaural (dummy head) recordings on a decent pair of headphones. You'll hear sound from totally 3d aroundyou, only using 2 channels of audio.

Graeme
 
Off-topic, thank god

Off-topic, thank god

acehole111 said:
My favourite quote from Enzo Ferrari, "You pay for the motor, all the rest is free"
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Sadly, you could tell the difference between the motor and the free bits... :)
 
After what I've been reading regarding surround sound field recording, If I were to request anything more regarding audio to the RED team it would be to make the 4 audio channels 24bit/96Khz...

I know, I know!! :)
 
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