Red Surprises at IBC at a bargain price

M

mike the beginner

Well-known member
If you amortize $10M of development cost over 100 cameras, add $100k to the price of each camera.

If you amortize the same $10M development cost over 10,000 cameras, add $1k to the price of each camera.

These numbers are for example only. But market size, selling price, actual costs and quantity all contribute to the pricing decision.

BTW, we have some big surprises saved for IBC.

Jim
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Comment made over at DVinfo
First off it shows just how massively important it is for Red to get volume of sales. If JUST AS AN EXAMPLE AND STATED BY JJ AS SUCH!!!!! the Red Pre-Orders reaches 500 prior to production then everyone who pre-ordered has just bought a camera that COULD HAVE cost $20,000 to produce. An absolute bargain and surely un sustainable one at that price without the volumes rising significantly. Remember JJs statement though it is only an EXAMPLE.

"Those who pre-order will not be disappointed" :)

SURPRISES MUST BE IN STORE AND THEY MUST BE GROUNDBREAKING. Red has to get volumes up and time will soon be catching up with them. 5oo units is a great achievement for a fully professional camera. Somehow though i think a slightly rounder figure would be fitting for such a groundbreaking camera how about 1,000 Pre-orders WOW that would be something!!!

Surprises, Lets guess? Ok i need a break from all this learning don't i.

Focusing: A new method of accurate focusing is announced. This will be groundbreaking and have you guys jumping for joy.

The new EVF WOW resolution and price.

The new LCD resolution and portable with new cool features.

The new FAMILY of codecs to cover all bases, details mentioned.

The new zoom lens price mentioned and design. An 18-200 mm s35 lens at a price point to shock at under $6,000 Compared to a Cookes it will not be as fast nor sharp BUT it will be much lighter and will be pretty damn close to sharpness. Other previouesly not mentioned lenses will be given a mention.

The new shoulder mount displayed (though possible not tied down yet)

The new much improved cage designs displayed.

More details about Red Code. The use of any modern 2.5 inch hard disc. Pop it in to the Red enclosure and start recording.

Pre-record function surely a must have feature hopefully available with Red Code or Red ram.

The new INFRARED Night vision button/switch OR a new attachment in the making similar to canons that provides new generation night vision at a price point to please.

What do others think? Jarrod and mike curtis can go first:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

I EDITED THIS BECAUSE I FELT IT WAS SOMEWHAT MISSLEADING. It helps no one to misslead sorry i shall try to be more careful in any future posts.

Michael
 
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Probably the wrong time of day for a reply from either of those, so I'll have a guess. Based on Jim's recent announcement of a near-5k sensor design, I reckon the bit-rate will be higher than previously advertised as well.
 
What could it be?....

The Red is ahead of schedule and we will get them by the end of the year! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Well... it's a nice thought.
 
Jim says,

"These numbers are for example only",

So let's not start quoting them as fact. A reason to pre-order would certainly be to avoid possible price changes. I'm sure if the price went up, Red would honour their pre-orders, but I doubt the price will change, given the number of times its been quoted.

The cages and recording media may turn out surprisingly expensive perhaps?

I think a price drop would be fantasy. A nice one though.

Any bonuses for those of us with preorders would be welcome! A free RED S35mm zoom thrown in perhaps? Unlikely. However the hat they said they'd send me will be very welcome.
 
I am a fan of Red and i am actually quite proud to be a fan:)

I have just edited my original thread starter because i felt it was missleading or could be taken as missleading by others. Now us Red fans would never want to lead those who either don't believe in Red or just have missgivings until the camera is finished. Then we will be absolutely and fully justified in being a fan and believer in Red.

Despite the editing i stand by what is said in that volume of sales is crucial to the success of Red in more ways than one. Anyone who offers a similar product to others at a greatly reduced price (discounting slave labour etc) and having a similar price/wage structure and set up, and with the intention of making a profit, could be be limited in options without achieving volume of sales. So i think Red is hoping for exactly that! Increased volumes of cameras sold. Otherwise why state they are geared for mass production!!!!

They are marketing it brilliantly so far and will continue to market it. After IBC and the footage plus some nice surprises the rest of the goodies will come nearer the time for producing the camera itself (i think). All clever stuff.

Suggestions of a reduced price or anything like that i think is way off the mark. It is already a bargain at $17,500. It could go higher in its SECOND BIG production run. Many film crews must surely be sitting on the sidelines waiting for the finished product. Their concern is mainly what the camera can do and if it makes financial sense. I would not be surprised if the price did go up by say $1,000 or whatever. If they deliver all we expect and if they have kept to their price for pre-orders thereby satisfying those who have in their own wee way helped the progress of Red and believed in Red then i say good luck to them if they do put the price up at some point in time, they deserve it.

Michael Official Red fan club member 312
 
It's funny though, that if you set up a business model based upon 1000 sales total, then you'll get around 1000 sales - and if you set up a business model of high volume sales, assuming you got your market research right on the price and features, that's what you'll get. In effect, there's a good degree of self-fullfilling prophecy.... Not to say it's all sales magic, but you can seriously limit your sales by thinking too small.

Graeme
 
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mike the beginner - free Sharks with Frickin' Laser Beams to the pre-ordering folks. (Shark) cage optional.

:)

-mike curtis
 
Can you tell me where you found the info for the Red Lens you say it would be a 18-200mm for under $6K but i dont see it mentioned on red.com same goes for the new shoulder mount? whats your source? dont get me wrong its not that i dont trust you, i would just like to know more if at all possible.
 
Can you tell me where you found the info for the Red Lens you say it would be a 18-200mm for under $6K but i dont see it mentioned on red.com same goes for the new shoulder mount? whats your source? dont get me wrong its not that i dont trust you, i would just like to know more if at all possible.
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Raza Malik You missed a very important bit of the post. I said OK lets guess.

Though if you spend enough time looking you will see mention of a shoulder mount being considered. A zoom first mentioned but likely to be available after the camera. Price just a guess like i said. The idea was to guess what features would be shown at IBC.

I have learned something today. Think i will just listen and ask a learning question instead from now on:(
 
Speculation can be a bit dangerous. Like those that guessed the body would be $5k. If you say it enough, people will forget you are guessing. Then be disappointed if it isn't the case when the real announcement is made. The only thing EVER announced is the body at $17.5K and the 300mm f2.8 at $4750. No specs, zoom range, delivery time or price has ever been mentioned for the zoom. Mainly because it hasn't been established.

Jim
 
Jarred Land said:
Stephen, do you look at a higher bitrate as a good thing or a bad thing?
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Good.

Well, mostly. Obviously that then has an impact on data rates which could be fairly interesting. But I seem to remember Jim saying way back around NAB time that bit-rate was one of the things that could possibly change (but I guess he said that about most things!) But also in Mike's write-up it struck me that he seemed to suggest there issues with the RAID they were using capturing the 4k output, which made me think maybe the specs had changed somewhat.
 
mike the beginner said:
Raza Malik You missed a very important bit of the post. I said OK lets guess.

Though if you spend enough time looking you will see mention of a shoulder mount being considered. A zoom first mentioned but likely to be available after the camera. Price just a guess like i said. The idea was to guess what features would be shown at IBC.

I have learned something today. Think i will just listen and ask a learning question instead from now on:(
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Yes i must have missed it somehow, nevermind. :)
 
Greg Lowry said:
We'll see material progress, more info and some "surprises" at IBC, but IMO the big bang will occur at next year's NAB, not at IBC.
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No offense, but if the RED target is engineering models by year's end and shipping product around January-February, saving "surprises" for NAB (which doesn't occur until April) makes no sense. By the end of the year, we're going to have to have all of the information about this camera if they are to remain on track with their scheduling goals (which we understand aren't a guarantee, but Jim has been pretty adamant about intending to stick to them).
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
and if you set up a business model of high volume sales, assuming you got your market research right on the price and features, that's what you'll get.

Graeme
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yes of course.. unless you make a total piece of crap ha ha ha.. remember MicroDV?
 
Quoting me out of context

Quoting me out of context

Haakon said:
No offense, but if the RED target is engineering models by year's end and shipping product around January-February, saving "surprises" for NAB (which doesn't occur until April) makes no sense. By the end of the year, we're going to have to have all of the information about this camera if they are to remain on track with their scheduling goals (which we understand aren't a guarantee, but Jim has been pretty adamant about intending to stick to them).
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Haakon,

I tried to send a PM to you, but your box won't accept any additional messages.

Why are you taking a post that I made on dvinfo.com and quoting it out of context on dvxuser and misrepresenting what I said?

My comments were made about SALES at NAB 2007, because that's when I believe the "big bang" will occur from those who have not previously reserved.

Not appreciated.

Greg
 
Greg,

I didn't quote you "out of context," but perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to say. Glad to hear your clarifications.

BTW, I don't have any control over how many messages my box can store (there's a hard limit set at DVXUser that's pretty small, and my box always fills up too quickly), but you are more than welcome to email me anytime if you would like to correspond. The link is readily available next to both any users' post and in their profile. Thanks!
 
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