1080p or 2k, which will you use?

A

adaml

Well-known member
Given that there's not a huge difference in resolution between the two, I'm curious which you'll be using and why. 2k I guess is becoming more standard for digital projection, while televisions tend to be 1080 (at best). Is there any expectation of tv's eventually moving to 2k? Is there a downside to shooting 2k if tv is the likely output, and vice-versa, is there a downside to 1080p for theatrical?
 
Personally if I buy this camera I will use it at 1080p, mostly for the flexibility with regard to cheaper lens compatibility, variable framerate, ease of editing on a high end consumer PC, and the fact that it is the HDTV standard and therefore means no resizing of footage to create a native stream for HDTV, HD-DVD or BluRay.

Uses for 2k to me would mostly be having the extra sensor info around the 1080p frame to be able to rack slightly in post for camera shake etc.

I would likely crop the 1080p down to a 2.35:1 ratio anyway (Red Team, could you provide an overlay of this aspect ratio on the LCD screen please?) as I think it provides for a more cinematic image.

I don't expect TV to move to 2k from 1080, rather I can see that in the future TVs might double HDTV resolution to 3840x2160...
 
My thoughts: lens compatibility has nothing to do with 1080p mode, or variable framerate - 1080p is derivable from S35 or S16 lenses with this camera. S35 lenses allow for higher source resolution to derive the 1080p from, S16 lenses allow for higher frame rates. Pick your poision. Flexibility in post, however, is DEFINITELY an advantage of 1080p. HDTV is going to be with us for quite a while I'd imagine - look how long it took us to get from SD to HD. More resolution wouldn' benefit until screens were consistently over what, 100 inches or so? I've been reading that it requires a 50-60 inch TV at typical viewing distances to see a dramatic difference with HD. 2K? I'd be surprised if that was a broadcast standard before I have grandkids. And I'm not even seeing anyone seriously right now.
 
I will shoot with 35mm lenses targeting the entire sensor (for 35mm style DOF) and then downsample in camera to 2K output.

I will create 1080p proxies for editing.

I will online and CC in 2K for film out and digital cinema. The 2K master will then be downsampled to all consumer delivery formats (1080i HD, 720p HD, 480p, DVD, Web, etc.).
 
would like to shoot 2k windowed ( 35m lens ) & super 16 2k mode.
from there will go out to 2k , all HD flavors ..

will not really know if i can do 2k until more is released about redcode ... right now i can edit HD 1920x1080.
currently i have a film 2k short project that i'm having problems editing so workflow might cause RED 103 to shoot HD till reasonable 2k workflow solutions come into the market ...
 
I will use the smallest output I can get away with while shooting the entire sensor.

This brings up a great question: I sure hope RED pictures look the same at different resolutions
Jay
 
Robert Sanders said:
I will shoot with 35mm lenses targeting the entire sensor (for 35mm style DOF) and then downsample in camera to 2K output.

I will create 1080p proxies for editing.
Click to expand...
Similar idea for me. Shoot 2K scaled. Why don't you use 720P proxies, though ? Of course, shooting scaled 2K depends on the NLE support, and the amount of storage required, both on set and in post.

I will online and CC in 2K for film out and digital cinema. The 2K master will then be downsampled to all consumer delivery formats (1080i HD, 720p HD, 480p, DVD, Web, etc.).
Click to expand...

That is another QUESTION, regarding workflow. Minimizing the time in the DS Nitris/Other suite will be a tricky thing considering the posssible amount of data and manipulation you will be onlining. This will be my first film-out from digital, so I am necessarily weary (yet excited). If things don't shake out theatrically, then I still would want to do a HD master online. And if you decide not to go the online route, I can't imagine the way to do a proper cc etc...for 2K on a mid-budget...

Thus, it's too soon to know definitively, but I want the 2K scaled, if possible.

We still have awhile to answer the other questions.


RED # wish I was higher
 
720p. Probably the RED resolves the same or even more in 720p than the HVX in 1080p. And you have full use of the low light sensitivity of the 35mm sensor with probably less noise than in 1080p or 2k. And last not least: you need less storage. 720p will suit TV resolution for years to come and if you deliver a great work there´s still enough resolution for the big screen.
 
Robert Sanders said:
I will shoot with 35mm lenses targeting the entire sensor (for 35mm style DOF) and then downsample in camera to 2K output.

I will create 1080p proxies for editing.

I will online and CC in 2K for film out and digital cinema. The 2K master will then be downsampled to all consumer delivery formats (1080i HD, 720p HD, 480p, DVD, Web, etc.).
Click to expand...


By the time the camera is shipping, I don't see a reason to downsample 2k to edit in 1080p.

Both Kona and Black Magic cards handle standard 2k right now.

Both AMD and Intel are releasing dual core and higher chipsets.

Both Windows and OS X will be 64bit compliant.

Final Cut, Premiere and Avid can't avoid the trend that's going on with digital cinema cameras coming into market and will deal with it.

Red will have their own compressed codec, and there are others out there that'll let you edit 2k compressed proxies as without much hassle.

Since it looks like you'll go through the expense of conforming, CCing, and outputing 2k to film and digital cinema. There's no reason to not edit it in 2k.
 
donatello said:
currently i have a film 2k short project that i'm having problems editing so workflow might cause RED 103 to shoot HD till reasonable 2k workflow solutions come into the market ...
Click to expand...


What problems are you having?
 
I'm going for the whole sensor and then edit in some proxy size. Kinda depends on the codec solutions that will be available when it ships.
Aloha
-A
 
Thomas Mathai said:
Since it looks like you'll go through the expense of conforming, CCing, and outputing 2k to film and digital cinema. There's no reason to not edit it in 2k.
Click to expand...

Thomas, why bother ?

What extra benefits could you get editing in 2K that would outweigh the increased financial expenditure ?
Insofar, as you are going to online in a high end suite anyway. I don't see why 1080p or 720p proxies would be less desirable. And if you are going to cc etc... on a desktop at home for 2K, then we're talking a whole other ball game (Barco 2K projectors,HD production monitors)... I'm sure sooner or later it will be cost effective to edit and finish in 2K on a desktop, but unless i'm woefully naive, that's not happening for at least 3-5 years.

I just hope that Avid (as an ultra slow adopter) is listening to the Revolution, because if RED delivers to specs, then i'm sure i'll not be the only one that designs my NLE and post needs around it, and not the other way around. Hopefully, the RED codec will kick butt, NLE integration will be smoother, and third parties will jump at the opportunity to be apart of a new choice ...

:beer:

RED #wish I was higher
 
Thomas Mathai said:
By the time the camera is shipping, I don't see a reason to downsample 2k to edit in 1080p.

Both Kona and Black Magic cards handle standard 2k right now.

Both AMD and Intel are releasing dual core and higher chipsets.

Both Windows and OS X will be 64bit compliant.

Final Cut, Premiere and Avid can't avoid the trend that's going on with digital cinema cameras coming into market and will deal with it.

Red will have their own compressed codec, and there are others out there that'll let you edit 2k compressed proxies as without much hassle.

Since it looks like you'll go through the expense of conforming, CCing, and outputing 2k to film and digital cinema. There's no reason to not edit it in 2k.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you think people will be able to edit RED 2k footage on a high-end PC or MAC? I have a pretty kick-ass dual-core system now that handles HVX footage with ease, and I would love to be able to edit my RED footage in the same manner, without downconverting. Will that be possible?
 
4k. I've been playing with wavelet encoders and from what I've found:

1080p and 2k both look significantly worse than pretty heavily compressed 4k.

Also the size difference then when you apply a wavelet compression on both the 1080 and the 2k was relatively insignificant. I was seeing frame sizes of about 1.2MBs with 4k that looked better than uncompressed 2k, that is right on par with uncompressed DV which is what I already work with quite a bit. After playing with it for a full day I couldn't find a size/quality ratio that made any sense outside of 4k, unless you need to shoot uncompressed for greenscreen or want the fast framerates/windowing abilities.

And I don't want to grade on a 1k let alone 4k so I'll be using proxies anyway.
 
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