Questions about the Hero Fest

[Alex DePew]

Should these be judged as Oscar worthy (what ever that is) or Sundance worthy? That doesn't make much sense. All of the films will set the level at which the others should be judged by. Doesn't this make the most sense?

Take this idea on for a moment. Imagine that you are in competition with others in a football game or boxing. The shame and in your faceness is all over it. Sh#t is being talked. Crowds are yelling and screaming from the stands. The critisism is right in your face and you have to fight around it. Film doesn't give that option. You are done. You can only defend your work with words at that point. Your work has to stand on its own.

If you are a light weight, you don't fight heavy weights. You fight other light weights.

With that said, there are several stages to being a light weight. If you are in your first fight, you will most likely loose to some one that has been in a few. The same goes for your first film. It's like you have to get your ass kicked to know how to do it better, or to get an idea of how to win. If you have fought a few times and you know the game, then you can apply the past knowledge. You are still a light weight, but you are more deadly and effective with your punches.

Most film people are artistic people. More sensitive, more emotional, etc. Competition is a difficult thing for some people like that because their mental world is different. If you can't see this, you haven't made enough film.

There is the point that this site is about film and not competition. That is cool with me. The comp is for those who want to take each other on to drive the skill. If you are easily hurt, you might not want to play. I find them exciting, challenging, and I enjoy the challenge. With all that emotion swirling around, there is going to be a darker more critical side to it.

I think the next comp. will be better. Not because of the genre, but because this honesty has been finally opened and people can stop kissing each others asses for fear of being ousted by the rest of the DVX folks and loosing the comp because of their opinions of others work and not their film itself.

This doesn't open the gates to be a prick to people, but it does open a gate for realism and honesty.

...and yes, more hot chicks...and explosions...and violence...ooo and blood.

Great post. I completely agree. I'm sure you would agree that boxers who are in the amateurs, but show lack of skill and deficiencies in many aspects of the sport (can't slip punches, throw wide punches, etc...) need to be told how the pros do it and how to get there. They need to be told that if they aspire to be champ, they need to fix those things. The same is true of filmmakers. The major difference is that boxers are emotionally (and most certainly physically tougher) than filmmakers and take criticism much better. It is the nature of the game. There are people who are doing this without the competetive edge and there is nothing wrong with that. But I think we should treat all the films with the same guidelines. And if the person being judged harshly reacts poorly, and by poorly I don't mean by defending their work I mean saying things like that was hurtful or that was out of line, (unless the comments really were tactless without supporting their position) then we just stop criticizing their work and let them be. If they are happy with what they are producing and that is enough for them, they shouldn't have opinions forced upon them. There is room enough for both on this board. I am glad this discussion has been opened. I too hope that Horrorfest will garner more open, honest discussion without all the ass kissing. That being said, there is a right and a wrong way to do it and I hope people show common sense when letting the filmmakers know their opinions.

And I'm all for hot chicks and violence. As long as it serves the story. But then again what story isn't served by using hot chicks?

 

[Norm Sanders]

Envision, I know what I said because I meant what I said. there are alot of films here that feel like no effort. when you have one go over the top and other lack what do you do. I plan on watching them all today. also envision my critique was quick if you want a more longer one I will give you one if you like.

Perhaps I'm just WAY to litteral of a person, but Spidey WHICH did you mean to say? Your opening comment only gave praise to three films and ALL the others were bad. Then you come back & suddenly it's now 6 films that are great. That's why I said think before you type, so you're not having to change it up later.

A critique can be quick, but still have some kind of helpful direction. If our you felt our entire film was underlit, etc. then leave your comment(s) as is. If you feel there were specific areas that didn't meet your expectations, or you've got a helpful tip on what/how you think something can be improved, feel free.

Otherwise, no worries.

I think there is alot of people here that agree but are afraid to say it.

To me, it's just about tact & some thoughtfulness about other people, which I believe you currently lack. Sure, it may take a little extra time/effort to word things in a constructive way & allow people to feel like there's hope for improvement.

I mean call me an ass for telling you how it is... sorry. But I do plan on telling my critques today to each person.

You're not an ass for telling it like it is, but you come across as an ass because of your delivery techniques & lack of forethought to what you say (see first example).

 

[Norm Sanders]

Oh, and Matthew, GREAT analogy with the boxers. Thanks for that post.

 

[Larry Rutledge]

Let's not swing to the opposite end of the pendulum...it's ok to also say what we DID like about these films. People like to know when others enjoy something they created. But it needs to be balanced somewhere in there. If you liked something, say so...if you didn't like something, say so.... but take the extra few moments and say why you did, or didn't, like it.

If someone enters the contest, they are entering knowing they will be judged and scrutinized. It is an "assumed risk" that there will be comments/criticisms. If you can't handle the scrutiny, then stay out of the contest.

I'm also not bothered by the critiques being harsh or hard hitting, tact is nice, but I can live with tact-less responses...as long as they are thoughtful in terms of being fair and honest about your thoughts...not just, "that was crap". What was crap?

On a slightly separate note....right or wrong, what I took from some of the comments in this thread is that if you aren't already at "Hollywood" levels then you are wasting everyone's time by submitting an entry. And in further discussion about it, other comments seemed to indicate that discussion about time, budget, talent, etc were being offered as excuses for less than stellar quality. I submit these are not excuses but merely facts.

I for one am not a professional filmmaker, nor do I play one on TV .... I want to become one someday and am working and striving to that end. In the meantime, however, I have a family to take care of. So I can't just quit my job and sit home all day testing every function on each piece of equipment. For me the opportunity to learn, and make mistakes, comes from being challenged to complete a project. Sure, I may not fully succeed, but I also may not fully fail.

I just want to be treated fairly and not unfairly criticized, or lumped into a category of failures, especially when my work has not even been viewed.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Great post Larry.

 

[Kholi]

Larry and Matt B-- Great posts.

Matt's right about the heavyweight and lightweight classes.

And Larry is absolutely fair in saying that... well.. he wants to be treated faiir. Everyone has to start out somewhere.

Guys, I am jawing off with you and I am [probably] the only one that's never actually made a short movie. When I lay down the cash for my next two projects, I expect to hear a lot of feedback that'll make me question why I chose to become a cliche. So, I get ya, and probably more so when I'm at that point.

To those that I might have offended by giving tactlessly harsh feedback, sorry. And to those that I simply did not give enough feedback too, sorry. I know that I went into more depth with msconoe's ninja short, why I liked and what I disliked and what didn't work. I'll try to do that with everyone.

 

[Kholi]

for the hunderth time i know you didnt like my movie briceman I know you told me that alot and I dont care. one person opinion see? But i took what you said into concideration but it doesnt mean my next movie will has less violence language nudity.... in fact my horror fest will probli be more. I want to go to the extremes. Each movie I make the more complex I want to make the shots. I want to make the story more complex. I learn something since the last one, make a 7 min script at least and nothing more. CPU script was 20 pages then I had to trim 20 mins out of it thas why the movie is the way it is. but in either case I knew the flaws. and when people to me I said thanks I will use this to help me. Not go: WHAT NU UH! I take each thing with concideration of where people are coming from.

Briceman I know your convictions and I know my film probli didnt fall in you watching catagory but it did with many others.

I want make those type of movies.

Envision, I know what I said because I meant what I said. there are alot of films here that feel like no effort. when you have one go over the top and other lack what do you do. I plan on watching them all today. also envision my critique was quick if you want a more longer one I will give you one if you like.


I think there is alot of people here that agree but are afraid to say it.

John Hudson I totally agree with you. After I saw texas Fortune I set my goals to compete to films like that.

talent, story and money. If you expect to compete in these things shouldnt you try to out do whats nesscessary to win? Go beyond it?

I mean call me an ass for telling you how it is... sorry. But I do plan on telling my critques today to each person.

I am behind you and Matthew. I agree with everything you say. I think, though, that you also know how to deliver tactful criticism...

Don't get me wrong. You could rip me one and I'd probably thank you for your unabashed and abrasive honesty, maybe I'm masochistic (don't quote me.) It's good to know that you have high hopes for your community peers, because if anyone hasn't noticed... you do. You expect everyone to be on the tip-top, and that's not a bad thing... but maybe you (and a few others) just need to really show a bit more class when telling it how it is.

Otherwise, I do agree with what you've been saying. Your example of Texas Fortune and how you "upped" your game is how everyone should be thinking. If you're serious about it... you need to be serious about it.

To everyone (including myself):

[Literally] Put your money where your mouth is, invest it in your product. Invest as much time as humanly possible, between work hours, sleep hours, life hours, as humanly
possible. Invest your blood, sweat, and in some cases ... tears. You guys might consider yourselves lightweights right now, but I don't think you want to remain there... right?

Not saying that you guys don't do that already, by the way.

 

[Larry Rutledge]

No, wait...you're still missing my point. It's not about the tactful/tactless criticism. And it's not about how much or how little you comment/criticise.

I have only been able to comment on a few of the films. I intend to comment on others as soon as I can (I do have a day job after all). But I have watched ALL of them, several times.

The issue is the treatment of the projects as garbage or a waste of someones time, when the project hasn't even been viewed. How can you make blanket comments/statements about something when you don't know anything about it?

 

[Brandon Rice]

Yep...

 

[Kholi]

No, I get what you're saying, Larry.

You're upset because Spidey didn't even watch yours and he made the comment. I already got that.

I was saying that he's right about stepping up the production.

 

[Larry Rutledge]

Yes, I agree...every production should be the best possible work that filmmaker can turn out. Who would disagree with that. And I don't care if he ever watches my film or not, but I do care that he makes such a wide sweeping statement when who knows what he actually watched. It's not about me or my film, it's about unfair judgement.

It's been well established he likes to be harsh and has no time/desire for tact, that's fine...but doesn't excuse him, or anyone, from accusing people of wasting everyone's time, or stating that they don't belong simply because their work is not up to a predetermined (in his mind only) level.

I think the fact that this is a jury-less entry festival then it is open to ALL, and that means those who don't know what they are doing yet as well as Spielberg if he wants to get involved. And everyone knows they are going to get judged to the same criteria and if they don't measure up, they don't win. That alone should drive the attempt at increased production.

I know I strove to create the highest production level I possibly could. I tackled things I'd never done before...new equipment, recording dialog, trying visual effects, directing multiple actors. Did my "stepped up production" measure up to what Spidey, or Norm, or Jack, or others could produce....clearly no. But it was better than anything I had done before and it was as a result of trying to attain to levels exceeding Texas Fortune or CPU. I didn't reach that level, but I was reaching for it.

The issue, in my mind, is about fair treatment for all.

 

[Brandon Rice]

well... all men are created equal... I get your point Larry... indeed. And I think everyone does. Like you said, its a juryless film fest. If only films that were at a certain level were accepted, we wouldn't necessarily be having this "debate". But the beauty is the fact we can have this fest, and all learn while having a friendly competition.

 

[Larry Rutledge]

Ok, I think I've rounded this circle enough times....I'll step back down off my soapbox, and put it away this time.

I'm not trying to stir anything up....just expressing my feelings.

Peace,
Larry

 

[Matt Sconce]

I know I strove to create the highest production level I possibly could. I tacked things I'd never done before...new equipment, recording dialog, trying visual effects, directing multiple actors. Did my "stepped up production" measure up to what Spidey, or Norm, or Jack, or others could produce....clearly no. But it was better than anything I had done before and it was as a result of trying to attain to levels exceeding Texas Fortune or CPU. I didn't reach that level, but I was reaching for it.

This is what I thought the point of these competitions was. Inspiring filmmakers to rise to the next level, not whipping them for not achieving another person's subjective vision of it. I know that, like Larry, We tried a ton of new things, and learned a lot through this competition. It is an amazing opportunity to grow as a film maker and for the most part, people have really helped us in that growing process through Hero-Fest. Thank you for that.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

I think a lot of great points have been brought up but the conversation is starting to go around in circles. How about everyone take some of these lessons and review some more Herofest films?

And maybe by the time Horrorfest comes along we can revive some of these points before people start judging films, or write up some reviewer guidelines so that filmmakers get the most from the viewers, and viewers give honest feedback that helps filmmakers.