Zooms

J

JCummings

Well-known member
I've been looking for a used "workhorse" PL zoom for my F3, primarily for the kind of documentary work I do. It would compliment a small set of Zeiss CP.2 primes I already own.

I've narrowed it down to a couple of "affordable" options. On paper, the used Cooke Varotal 18-100 T3 or Angenieux 17-102 T2.9 look like good candidates.

Can anyone here provide a little insight into the differences in these lenses and perhaps what it's like working with them day to day? Any other options out there for similar kind of coverage in the $10-15K price range?
I did think about the Red 18-85, but wonder if another 15mm might make a big difference. Keep in mind what I'm looking for is a lens that I can keep on the camera with minimal lens changes as I blast through long days, usually working solo.

Thanks!
 
Any of the production zooms you listed are big and heavy, and will require support. That being said, I'm a big fan of the Cooke 18-100. With goodies it will add almost 13 pounds to your F3.

Another option I'll throw out there for handheld work..... Duclos 11-16, Red 17-50, with your CP.2 lenses to fill out your tele past 50mm.
 
For solo documentary work the Sony 18-252 T3.8 might be worth considering? It's not particularly fast, or even constant, but up to around 105mm it's surprisingly usable for run and gun type shoots. Image stabilisation can also help for the longer lengths hand held. I know it has a lot of haters (most haven't even tried it...) but mixed with a set of fast primes and a RED 17-50, I now feel I can cover most events with an F3.
 
Hi!
Hi!
i work on a handheld docustyle show. I use canon century 17-35mm, optica elite 25-80mm, canon fd 35-105mm and a angenieux 35-140mm.
All in pl mount.
I think optica elite 25-80mm is the most flexible documentary lens since it have a pretty good wide and tele in the same lens.

Roger
 
Fujinon has announced (at NAB) a 19-90 T2.9 lens with detachable servo-grip.

Covers Epic 5k (i know that does not apply to you) , has i/technology pins, and can do macro.

It weighs less than 6lbs.
 
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I was just talking to Robert @ Blacklist Productions about this lens, Ryan. I can barely wait until one comes in ; )
 
i worked with the 18-100 recently. it's a beast. it also seemed to provide a look that, to a great extent, obviates the need for diffusion filtering. very pretty, but didn't seem to have the contrast of the nikon and zeiss i'm more familiar with.

that fujinon sounds interesting.
 
Cooke 18-100 T/3 is legendary lens. Tied with the 17-80 Angie (although for different reasons) , it is my favorite.

It's just not a documentary lens in the sense of run and gun. If you are doing a documentary with many sit down interviews, slow paced B-roll, and little handheld (very little), this lens certainly can work and it's beautiful. The only drawback is that it's big. Most docu's I've worked on were handheld and fast moving, and I would not have wanted a lens so big...

but again, there aren't many PL mount zooms with a big range that are small and light. The Angie Optimo DP's are the best out there right now, for optical quality and functional for Docu work. I would say lens technology is one of the contributing factors for 16mm being so popular of a format for documentary in the past. Not only does the film last longer in the magazine (longer takes and less film cost), but the lenses are smaller as well. A Cooke 9-50, or an Angie 12-120 (both I own) are tiny! The ranges are amazing too! When comparing FoV, the 16mm Cooke 9-50 is pretty much the same FoV as the Cooke 18-100 on 35mm film. One is a giant, and the other is a dwarf.

It really just depends.

This is another reason I really think there is room in the market for 16mm sized sensors. Focus won't be as shallow, but on spontaneous documentary shooting, I'd be happy to get the shot in focus than to miss it all together.
 
I agree on there being a market for a camera like that.
I took my first baby steps in this biz using a CP16, and the Angenieux 12-120 I had on it was a decent, versatile zoom as I remember. I guess you just can't change physics and you can't run and gun with a 2-litre size lens on the camera.
Being able to use 16mm lenses would be a dream. Perhaps one of these days something similar to an F3 will come out that will allow the use of those lenses...I suspect there's a lot of nice 16mm lenses out there now.
 
I found used Red 18-50mm + 50-150mm set for just under 10k. Both compact and lightweight. No complaints about the picture, of course the 18-50mm isn't mechanically perfect but it still performs really well for the price. Too bad the 50-150mm is so hard to get.
 
I actually have the 18-50. Not a fine piece but it has been a good workhorse for me. Just would like a little more reach.
The 18-85 is probably my best choice right now at the price point I want to spend.
 
+1 on the Cooke 18-100. When that lens goes on, the magic begins! Absolutely the best "people glass" I have used. It's just excellent!
 
The best 2 lenses for run and gun are the RPZ 17-50mm and the Red 50-150mm.

They are my "go to" lenses on 90% of my Scarlet shoots.
 
When you say you are doing doc work all day long and you are by yourself , that sounds like an important consideration. I would ask what kind of work are you doing and how light do you need to be? Do you need real PL glass. Alot of us are using Nikon glass which is still damn sharp, often "arguably" parfocal and a fraction of the weight of PL glass. Then its light, fast ( 2.8) and you can carry a bag with a few lenses that cover everything over your shoulder. I have an 11-16 Tokina, 17-35, 28-70 and 80-200 Nikon on me all the time. The only downside as I see it is that you have short focus throws that make pulls a little coarser but its a doc. You can also get an 17-55 and a 24-70 Nikon.
 
And add to that list the Sigma 50-150, which is the basis of the Red. Also f/2.8 throughout.

Sigma has just released an update to that lens so I hope Red chooses to release a new PL version.
 
Sigma 50-150 is great lens! that update is mostly about adding an image stabiliser that you can not use for filming anyway.
so there are some great deals on the old model out there.
 
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