Zoom User Forum?

R

ric8138

Active member
Can anyone point me to a Zoom User Forum? I am trying to figure out some technical stuff about using my new F4 on narrative projects. That is, I want to record to "Scene Folders" out of order. It would seem that I could set up Folders named Scene 1, Scene 2 etc and then with the first field of meta data set to "folder name" I would end up with files named Scene 1 Take001, Take002 etc. This is fine to a point, but if you are working on a feature shoot, with 105 scenes, setting up those folders one by one with the character enter knob will take all day, and then you have to do it all over again when you start the next project. The Zoom will automatically create new folders and name them sequentially, SCENE001, SCENE002, but of course, those names are useless when we are shooting scenes out of order. I can rename the folders, but the individual takes will be named for the original folder name. It would seem that there would be an easier way to do this. Zoom has no user forum that I could find on THEIR website...
 
JWSound Forum seems to be mainly about Zoom bashing (It's not an SD!, It's not an SD!). Everyone there seems obsessed with the fact that the Zooms MIGHT break. Well everything breaks eventually, but you can have 2 F4's in your kit for $1300. If your $4,000 SD goes down, I don't care if they drive a new one to the set, You still loose a day of shooting. If Zoom #1 breaks, just pull out Zoom #2 and keep working.

FB page, I couldn't really find a tech area, but I'll keep looking at both and maybe I'll find the right place.

After a full day of reading the manual and screwing around with the interface, I am closer to a work flow. It looks like the way to do this is after formatting when I am ready to start a new project, I need to go to "finder>SD card" then hit "stop & FF" simultaneously. This makes a new folder and name this folder Scene001. Then do that keystroke 100 times to make 100 simultaneously numbered folders. The OS will make new folder with the same name but increasing numbers. Once I have the folders created the OS can name the files starting with the folder name, so if we are starting the day with Scene 23, I do "finder>SD Card>Select" and scroll down to folder named "Scene023" and select it. The first recording in that folder will be a file automatically named Scene23_Tk001.wav. The next will be named Scene23_Tk002.wav etc. When we move to Scene 18, select the Scene18 folder and the first file will be named Scene18_Tk001.wav. If we go back to Scene 23 at a later date, the numbering will pick up where it left off. If it is a multi-track take, the folder created for each take should have the same naming conventions but with track designations added (I haven't actually tried this yet, but that's next).

The next thing I'm trying to figure out is the Meta Data entry. When you go to that part of the interface it allows you to enter metadata for the NEXT take. How the hell can you decide if the next take is going to be a good, bad, or circled take? The manual is really not helpful as far as real world issues go.

If anyone here is actually interested I will maybe make a short tutorial showing the steps in detail.
 
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ric8138 said:
The next thing I'm trying to figure out is the Meta Data entry. When you go to that part of the interface it allows you to enter metadata for the NEXT take. How the hell can you decide if the next take is going to be a good, bad, or circled take? The manual is really not helpful as far as real world issues go.

If anyone here is actually interested I will maybe make a short tutorial showing the steps in detail.
Click to expand...

P. 39 in your manual. Basically, you move the bad take to the "False Take" folder, then the next take uses the same take name and number.
 
JWSound Forum seems to be mainly about Zoom bashing (It's not an SD!, It's not an SD!). Everyone there seems obsessed with the fact that the Zooms MIGHT break. Well everything breaks eventually, but you can have 2 F4's in your kit for $1300. If your $4,000 SD goes down, I don't care if they drive a new one to the set, You still loose a day of shooting. If Zoom #1 breaks, just pull out Zoom #2 and keep working.
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Like everything in life you need to look at the context. Most of the folks on JW Sound are working on serious budget projects. So while you are correct it will take even less time for them to fire you because of the lost take when your equipment failed. So yes they are obsessed with reliability, it's what they get paid a lot of money to deliver. And the price difference between Zoom and SD is less than they charge for one days equipment rental. It's a different world and it's run by different expectations.

DVX User caters to a largely different crowd. Most of the folks here are working either all of the time or a bunch of the time in more flexible situations. For most of us the Zoom looks to be a great choice. 99% of the quality at less than 1/2 the price. If it takes a bit of extra time to set something up not a big deal we are not holding up a $1mill a day shoot. If we have to pause to "fix" something also not usually a big deal, $$$$ set = VERY big deal.

The reason I pointed folks to the site is that they are going to be the ones pushing Zoom and they are the ones who would probably know the answer to the original question because unlike folks working on music or SFX or even a lot of low budget stuff they need to be able to do what was asked.

Your work around is fine but I doubt that someone working on a $$$$ film would deal with the hassle when other options make the task easier.

As a big proponent of lower cost options my advice is to pay attention to forums like JWSound, because they are setting the bar, ignore what doesn't apply to what you need, take advantage of the solutions others have spent the time to work out that do apply to what you do. When SD came in you would have found plenty of "it's not NAGRA" posts, and LOTS of discussion about reliability. SD became accepted specifically because they dealt with those questions head on and were responsive to the folks who are very averse to work arounds and are obsessed with reliability. When they came in they were about as below market in price as Zoom is now. I don't personally think Zoom is going to be a big challenge to SD, just as SD wasn't really a big challenger to other mixers and high end recorders. What I see Zoom being is the step below SD and above the prosumer stuff not really aimed at film work.
 
"FB page, I couldn't really find a tech area, but I'll keep looking at both and maybe I'll find the right place." There is no specific tech area, but if you ask a question usually someone answers it...
 
Scott,

Agreed, and understand I was not being critical, more bemused. I've been on both sides of that issue. I just lost a major client ($250K/yr) to an ad agency that bought a handycam for an art director. Also, yes I lust for a SD or Zaxcom recorder, but at this point I need to invest in better microphones, as that's where my greatest incremental improvement in sound quality comes from. I fit in better here, but have signed up for the JWSound forum to lurk. It will be a while before I get the cohones to post there.

I found a Zoom forum, but it looks like it's in England and mainly guys recording bird songs with the H series. They don't even have an F series thread.
 
graywolf said:
P. 39 in your manual. Basically, you move the bad take to the "False Take" folder, then the next take uses the same take name and number.
Click to expand...

I did read the manual and I understand how to use the "Bad Take" folder. There are a bunch of other meta-data fields that can be used, but it seems only for the NEXT take. "Circle" is one of them, so how does one designate a "circled" take after it's done? I'm also trying to add strings to "History" like RT for Room Tone.
 
I suspect that a lot of these things will get easier. The F8 is on firmware version 3.x and the F4 has already had an update. Some my require the control surface to work well so that would be more cart work than bag work. The control surface has some assignable keys so depending on how flexible that system is you could probably program some of this. I would post on whatever Zoom forums there are because Zoom seems to be listening and you are right false take is something you need to either hit while recording or after you stop and needs to mark the take you just did, and circle makes no sense till after the recording has stopped. If that isn't the way it works then it should be a firmware change and posting it so others can say YES this is the way it should work is probably the fastest way to move it up the fix list.
 
Be mindful that using a 'false take' folder may cause other problems.... For example back in my Nagra days it was far better to keep the false or bad takes as then the sound takes match the picture takes rather than deleting them (by doing so would have saved 1/4" tape stock).
Its then just a case of counting in both media and matching the takes... 1:1, 2:2, 3:3, 4:4 etc etc
 
Samual, the product specialist at Zoom North America monitors and participates in JWgroup discussions, so may be able to PM him directly, or post a discussion query. Warning: it's a tough room for non-pros.
 
ric8138 said:
I did read the manual and I understand how to use the "Bad Take" folder. There are a bunch of other meta-data fields that can be used, but it seems only for the NEXT take. "Circle" is one of them, so how does one designate a "circled" take after it's done? I'm also trying to add strings to "History" like RT for Room Tone.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are going to need that control surface so you can plug in a keyboard. I have not even tried to input notes as it seems like an exercise in frustration (remember, I am old). Also, for the stuff I do, an hour is a long shoot.

Question, what happens if we plug keyboard into the USB Jack? Would be nice if keyboard input was and undocumented feature.
 
OzGizmo said:
Be mindful that using a 'false take' folder may cause other problems.... For example back in my Nagra days it was far better to keep the false or bad takes as then the sound takes match the picture takes rather than deleting them (by doing so would have saved 1/4" tape stock).
Its then just a case of counting in both media and matching the takes... 1:1, 2:2, 3:3, 4:4 etc etc
Click to expand...

I think it depends on how you define a "bad take". I would take it to be a "false take", i.e.: they called "roll sound" and something happens and they don't roll camera, or if you accidentally hit the record button (happens in freezing cold with trembling fingers, trust me). I would use it to keep the take count and number consistent with the camera take count.
 
I have found the F8 & F4 page on Facebook and posted there. I'll let you know if something useful turns up. I will try PMing the "Zoom Guy" on JWSound, and see if I can get him to visit us here on DVXuser.
 
graywolf said:
Sounds like you are going to need that control surface so you can plug in a keyboard. I have not even tried to input notes as it seems like an exercise in frustration (remember, I am old). Also, for the stuff I do, an hour is a long shoot.

Question, what happens if we plug keyboard into the USB Jack? Would be nice if keyboard input was and undocumented feature.
Click to expand...

Sadly you can not plug a USB keyboard directly in for metadata entry. If you could (or if Zoom had not removed the bluetooth functionality from the F4, which the F8 has) then I would buy a Zoom F4 today!

But as you can't, I'm going to wait instead to see what Tascam does in response to Zoom, as a little birdy tells me this is coming just around the next corner... ;-)

ric8138 said:
I think it depends on how you define a "bad take". I would take it to be a "false take", i.e.: they called "roll sound" and something happens and they don't roll camera, or if you accidentally hit the record button (happens in freezing cold with trembling fingers, trust me). I would use it to keep the take count and number consistent with the camera take count.
Click to expand...


Good point!

ric8138 said:
I have found the F8 & F4 page on Facebook and posted there. I'll let you know if something useful turns up. I will try PMing the "Zoom Guy" on JWSound, and see if I can get him to visit us here on DVXuser.
Click to expand...

That would be nice! Even if he only pops by once a fortnight, to check up on if any new threads relevant to him have started up in this sub forum.
 
Hello All. Samuel from Zoom here. Finally got an account activated. Always happy to help. I started a new thread called "Ask a Zoom Rep". I'll check in on this blog whenever I can. Always happy to help.
 
This is why I still use paper sound reports whenever possible (I know that's not all that possible over the shoulder). It's much easier and faster for me to just write this stuff down on a sound report. Entering metadata on a little screen, on ANY recorder, without an external keyboard is frustrating and time consuming.

With the F8 you can use their iOS app and edit metadata, along with lots of other stuff, on a phone or tablet. So, you may not need to spend the money on a much more expensive machine right now, but a little more gets you the F8 (which the guys on JWSound do respect and some use. Many have it as a backup machine) with the bluetooth connectivity to a device with the app. You can mount the tablet in your audio bag or on a sound cart.
 
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