Zoom R16 vs H4(N)

C2V said:
Without knowing what the Tascam can/cannot do, I can't really make an educated recommendation between those three options.

I would venture to say, despite my distaste for Behringer mixers, that your noise problems are likely worse in the DSR200. Without seeing/hearing your setup in person, though, that's just a guess. The mixer is still, likely, a part of the problem (albeit smaller). I'd say that you would probably see a marginal improvement with the Behringer + H4... and that would buy you some time to save up for a MixPre.

As has been said so many times around here, cheap audio is actually more expensive.
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Okay, so I'll keep the H4 as the back-up depending on what the other guy comes back with regarding the DR100. Hopefully you'll be able to use your well-trained ear when he posts the samples as well (though I understand mic, etc has a lot to do with it too)

This is a great test. The wireless lavs sound awful, but the NTG-3 sounds really awesome (to my untrained ear).

http://www.vimeo.com/7568309
 
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Yeah... that comparison has one shortcoming. The G3 systems heard straight off the TASCAM were not included, so there's no reference (we only heard the lavs from the camera). That noise could be caused by the AGC of the camera. (Guy or Jesse, if you read this, that would be a great addition just for the sake of the experiment.)
 
Chamber005 said:
Alternatively, have you looked at Tascam's DR-100? This, again, would be cheaper than a mixpre/H4 combo. But would the preamps be better than the H4N's?

http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-100;9,12,3717,16.html

I could also pick up a Fostex M8 MKII locally for 150 bucks.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fostex-MR-8-mkII-8-Track-Digital-Recorder-103729851-i1125873.gc

A Tascam DP-02 for 200 bucks.

http://www.tascam.com/products/dp-02;9,16,3580,16.html

Fostex VF160EX for 300 bucks.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--FOSVF160EX
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It might be worth considering a pre-owned Fostex FR2-LE. I have the Fostex FR2-LE and the Zoom H4N, and while I like the H4N, the overall sound quality, clarity, depth, transparency, etc., is much better on the Fostex when using external condenser microphones. It's not a perfect unit by any means, but I got mine for $300 (lightly used) and it came with a great set of headphones on eBay, it's a much more serious unit than the Zoom, although I'm going to keep my H4N as a backup and for room tone, nat-sound, because the built in condensers are quite nice and the thing is super portable and easy to use - the small Zooms are really great for what they are, but I just don't think they are quite up to par (yet) for feature-film quality dialogue. No doubt you could use one and get clean sound, but I do find the detail and transparency to be somewhat lacking at least through the XLR inputs, the Fostex on the other hand sounded like a veil had been lifted off the sound, and pre-owned, cost less than what I paid for the Zoom.
 
thisisapocalypse said:
It might be worth considering a pre-owned Fostex FR2-LE. I have the Fostex FR2-LE and the Zoom H4N, and while I like the H4N, the overall sound quality, clarity, depth, transparency, etc., is much better on the Fostex when using external condenser microphones. It's not a perfect unit by any means, but I got mine for $300 (lightly used) and it came with a great set of headphones on eBay, it's a much more serious unit than the Zoom, although I'm going to keep my H4N as a backup and for room tone, nat-sound, because the built in condensers are quite nice and the thing is super portable and easy to use - the small Zooms are really great for what they are, but I just don't think they are quite up to par (yet) for feature-film quality dialogue. No doubt you could use one and get clean sound, but I do find the detail and transparency to be somewhat lacking at least through the XLR inputs, the Fostex on the other hand sounded like a veil had been lifted off the sound, and pre-owned, cost less than what I paid for the Zoom.
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I look into it! Thanks!
 
Chamber005 said:
And there's no science at all with regards preamps, right? It's just "I prefer this one or that one"? It seems like everything in audio and video comes down to a specific, easily articulated formula of components except for preamps.
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Oh, I don't think that's true at all. NOTHING in audio or video "comes down to a specific, easily articulated formula of components". :)

Chamber005 said:
Also, you're saying that I could simply plug a preamp into the H4's line-in and don't necessarily need a mixer? You mentioned bulkier ones, are any of these good brands, or no?

It seems like the cost of a mic pre and an H4 would be cheaper than a mixpre plus an H4. And if I can find preamps that are as good as what the mixpre has, it would be comperable, right?
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You need a mixer if you need to MIX. You need mic preamps if you need mic preamps. Clearly, if you need BOTH, then most mixers include mic preamps and you get everything together in one box. I wouldn't assume that any mixer or mic preamp is going to have noticeably better mic preamps than the H4 unless they cost significantly MORE than the H4. Note also that unless the H4 has a true line input (which bypasses the built-in mic preamp), then you are stuck with the H4 preamp regardless of what you are using externally.
 
Richard Crowley said:
... Note also that unless the H4 has a true line input (which bypasses the built-in mic preamp), then you are stuck with the H4 preamp regardless of what you are using externally.
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You keep using these words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean. (Sorry, stuck in princess bride mode)

To say "well, it will get run through the preamp anyway, so it doesn't matter" is over-simplifying. If the sound coming into the preamp needs less gain, then the end result is better sound out the other end, which is all anyone cares about. It may not be the best or most efficient way to get the better sound out the other end, but it does work.
 
ExpensiveHobby said:
You keep using these words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean. (Sorry, stuck in princess bride mode)

To say "well, it will get run through the preamp anyway, so it doesn't matter" is over-simplifying. If the sound coming into the preamp needs less gain, then the end result is better sound out the other end, which is all anyone cares about. It may not be the best or most efficient way to get the better sound out the other end, but it does work.
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Here we go again. This discussion has already run its course in another thread. If you need more gain and you have to use an external preamp to get it, then something else is wrong with the setup and the external mic preamp is just a bandage over the REAL problem. Maybe this kind of makeshift workaround is SOP here in indy-land, but not in MY world. I'm not willing to settle for a kludge. YMMV
 
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