FS7: Zoom lens choice ?

D

Duol

Active member
Hi,

I'm looking for a Cine Zoom Lens for my Sony FS7...

I usually use photo lenses and I find myself stuck often with the 24-70 range which is not wide enough and not close enough. I also have a 70-200mm zoom but I want to have a wide shot and a close-up without changing the lens.

So I'm looking for a zoom with a better range and especially fluid focus and zoom rings. One that doesn't breathe too much and that gives me a good bokeh in a reasonable price range. And one not too heavy because I'm a little afraid with the E-mount solidity (I have FS7 version 1).

I consider 4 optics at the moment :

- Zeiss 21-100mm LWZ.3 T2.9-3.9
+ Focal range
+ Correct Price (under $10,000)
+ Just 2 kg
+ No breathing
+ Close focus at 0,8m
+ Image circle : 31.1
- Iris ramp (2.9 wide open - 3.9 at 100mm)
- Colors seems to be very clinicals
- No servo

- Fujinon XK20-120mm T3.5 Cabrio
+ Great focal range (20-120mm, exactly what I'm looking for - 6x)
+ Correct price (under 10,000$ for the version without the servo)
+ Great Skin tones and colors
+ Great Bokeh
- T3.5 : a little too close
- Image circle : only 28.5mm !!!
- Close focus at 1.1m !!!
- Weight : With servo: 2,9 kg - Without servo: 2,4 kg

- Fujinon 19-90 T2.9 Cabrio
+ T2.9 not so bad
+ Image circle : 31.5mm
- 19-90mm : not enough, I think I need minimum 100 at the zoom max.
- Really Expensive ($28,300)
+/- - Weight : With servo: 2,7 kg - Without servo: 2,2 kg

- Angenieux EZ1 30-90 T2.0
+ T2.0 : Excellent
+ Correct price ($10,000)
-/+ Image circle : 30mm
- 30-90mm : seems to be not enough at the mini and at the zoom max.


Other idea ? What's your opinion on these Zooms ?

Thans for your feedbacks !
 
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I had it narrowed down to the Zeiss and the Fujinon 20-120. I was looking forward to not having to worry about back focus with the Zeiss and I decided that the T 2.9 to T 3.9 was a non-issue given the way that I would be using the lens.

That said, when it was all said and done I selected the Fujinon w/o the servo zoom. I'm quite happy with it. It's a beautiful piece of glass. Interestingly enough, the thing that tipped me toward the Fujinon had nothing to do with gear and everything to do with availability. The Zeiss is on about a 6 mon waiting list as of about a month ago, and I wasn't willing to wait!

Here's a picture of how it turned out:

FS7M2-small.jpg
 
Hi Vintegreo,

Thanks for your message.

What about the weight ? Do you have the FS7 MKI or MKII ? Because I own the FS7 version 1 and I'm a little afraid with the E-mount solidity... I'm also interrested by the version without the servo.

Do you use this lens with another camera ? The negative point for me is its image circle (only 28.5mm) because I want to use it with other cameras.

The 3.5 is not a handicap with the FS7 ?

I'm really in love with its focal range !
 
I have the MK II version, but you'll note in my picture that in spite of the camera having a beefier mount than the original, that I've opted to use a lens support and rods. I once rented this setup with a MK 1 and had the servo version of the lens fall off of the camera due to a faulty loose PL mount, so I'm scared to not have a little extra insurance policy on that thing being stable.

As for the image circle, that's not a concern to me as I only use with the camera pictured.

Regarding the servo, I'm holding out that some day I may buy a Zacuto Z-motor or something similar. I just don't think another $5K for the Fujinon servo handgrip is worth it for my shooting style. I don't think 3.5 is a handicap with such a sensitive camera. If it ever is, I'll rent something faster and use this very nice lens the other 99% of the time.
 
What was the Faulty PL mount you used when the lens falled off? And now ?

I have the Metabones one...
 
I don't recall for sure...it was either a Wooden Camera or a 16x9 Inc. I have a 16x9 Inc one now and really like it. Very robust. As for the first one, I blame it on poor maintenance vs. a poor product. We have to tend to things if we want them to keep serving us well.
 
Thanks,

Where are you bought your Fujinon please? it seems to be out of stock eveywhere...

Do you see focus breathing with this lens ?
 
Duol said:
Thanks,

Where are you bought your Fujinon please? it seems to be out of stock eveywhere...

Do you see focus breathing with this lens ?
Click to expand...

I haven't shot enough with it to notice focus breathing. I bought mine from Alpha Video, but they ultimately were the middle man to get it direct from Fujinon. Find yourself a good local dealer and have them get it for you! Good luck!
 
If you're considering the Fuji 19-90, what about the Canon 17-120? They've reinstated the $5K rebate, so it's back to just a little over $26K, so it's less than the 19-90. Yes, it's a heavy pig, BUT you get the best focal range available in a lens like that. Some people knock it for not being constant aperture, but it's essentially the same as the Fuji in the same focal range. Fuji: 19-90 T2.9; Canon is T2.95 from 17-90. It doesn't begin to ramp until 91mm and then you're only losing ~2/3 stop all the way to the top-end. Well worth the trade off for the range and reach, in my opinion.

Canon 17-120
+ Range: 17-120
+ Great Color/Image
- Expensive: $26,350(still less than the Cabrio)
+ T2.95 from 17-90
- T Ramps from 91-120
+ Built-in Macro adjustment
+ Built-in Back-Focus adjustment
+ Image Circle 31.7mm
+ Available User Swappable Mount System with full electronic contacts for EF and PL(Abel Cine/IBE Optics eUMS)
+ Close Focus .85m/2.8'
- Weight 6.4lb/2.9kg
+ Removable Servo Grip(auto recalibration in menu)
+ Servo's for Zoom, Iris and Focus in the grip
 
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Hi Run&Gun

Yes the canon is another solution. I saw the comparative on Newshooters between the Fuji 19-90, the Fuji 20-120 and the Canon 17-120 and I don't really like the bokeh of the canon.

The choice of the Fujinon 19-90 is if I find it used, because it's out of my budget. So if I find a canon used, why not. Even if the lens is very heavy for the FS7.

Run&Gun, do you have one ?
 
Dont like the Bokeh.. its 11 blade aperture.. I think the cab is only 9.. maybe rent one and see for yourself..? .. I used the Cab alot as a rental before the CN7 came out.. and I,d vote for the Canon everytime.. as Run says.. 17-90 is the same stop as the Cab..then you have the bonus 91-120.. 19 on the Cab is just not wide enough.. actually either is 17..(wish it was 15-110).. but its the best range out there.. both are about the same weight/size so might as well get the extra focal length.. easier self focus too .(dont mention AF !!). 180 V,s 220 (or there abouts) degree throw.. . anyway the cab you run out of hand to do deep focus pulls :).. and its cheaper too ! either one I would invest in an easy rig ..
 
Hey Duol. Yes, I do have the 17-120. I use it all the time on my F55 and C300. I still usually go with my CN-E primes for sit-down interviews, but I have used the 17-120 on interviews with very good results. I've never heard of anyone not really liking the bokeh on the Canon, but we all have our own preferences. As Donny says, it has 11 iris blades. The same as the primes.

The Fuji 19-90 Cab was the first to market, but I rarely see them in the circles I run in, anymore. Most guys I see with ENG-ish lenses, now, are running the 17-120's and some of the Sony "all-in-one" lenses. And some Fuji 20-120's...

Most reviews of the lens are generally very favorable. I have seen some video "tests", that I question, though, because the images they showed didn't reflect my experience with it. There are SO many variables when it comes to camera, lens and light tests... It's hard to accept them at just face value. They are a good resource, but when it comes to something like a $20k+ lens, if you have questions, demo one for yourself and see how it looks on your camera, how you're going to be using it the most.

If you're looking for used lenses to try and save some money, you may be fighting a tough battle, right now. A (very)quick search on eBay didn't show anything for the 17-120, and most of the 19-90 results were new or significantly higher than new prices. There was one I saw for $25k, though. There was a DVXuser member who had a Fuji 20-120 listed for sale on here a while back, but I don't know if it's still available. You could also reach out to rental houses and see if they have any that they are wanting to sale. But again, you may not save THAT much. When I bought my 17-120 last December, my rep said they had two they were selling out of the rental inventory if I wanted to wait a few weeks to the end of the year. I passed when I was told the price. It was only about $1K or a little more off of the new price. Not enough for me to buy a lens that everyone and their brother has finger f****d and been used under God knows what conditions vs. a brand new one.
 
I've also rented the Canon 17-120 several times and in the end bought the Fujinon over the Canon for a couple reasons: 1) There was absolutely NO way my budget would afford the price hike over the Fujinon 20-120 that I bought for under 10K w/o the servo. 2) I know that many people have no issue with losing nearly a stop at the end of the range, but for me, it just made me a bit neurotic. Every time I'd jump in for a focus and then back up to frame the shot, I'd have a little mental hiccup wondering if I had the exposure right because of the loss. I realize that for many this is a non-issue, but for me it was just one more thing that I didn't want to think about while shooting.

That said, the results I got from that Canon lens were gorgeous every time, and if the ramping and price aren't issues for you as they were for me, you will be thrilled with its performance.
 
Thanks for your replies.

To precise the use of the lens that I want to buy :
- I want to use this lens in documentary style (Cinéma Vérité) so I need to be reactive
- I never use zoom in a shot
- I want a parfocal lens
- I use Camera on my shoulder very often so I want something not too heavy
- I like to be close to the people
- I hate when a lens breathe
- I have not a very high budget for this

So for the moment my choice is :

1 - Zeiss 21-100mm
Pro : Great range - No breathing - The least heavy - Great Price - Sharp - Low chromatic aberration - Close focus at 0.8m - Bigger image circle - Swapping Mounts - Great Flares
Cons : Iris Ramp - Avalaibility - Iris is a little too far from the other rings - 298° rotation focus - Colors a little clinical

2 - Fujinon 20-120mm without servo
Pro : Best range - Constant iris - Rings seem to be close - Great colors and skintones - 200° focus ring
Cons : iris open at only 3.5 - a litlle more expensive than the Zeiss - Image circle : only 28.5mm - Close focus at 1.1m (+0.3m) - 400g more

3 - Fujinon 19-90 or Canon 17-120mm used
Pro : Better image circle...
Cons : The price and the price unless a very good used deal
 
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