Zoom h4n with HIGH end shotgun boom condenser Sanken CS3e

Blackout

Blackout

Veteran
Greetings all,

We all know that sound for film and video can easily exceed the budget that you spent on your main piece of gear - your camera.

Any of the pro boom / mixer / recorder setups will run you past $5000 without even blinking. I had a sound devices mix pre, and a tascam hd-p2 which were stolen, so now I am left with my high end boom mic (a Sanken CS3e) with no mixer or recorder, and I am low on the funds, so I am getting desperate and wondering what it would sound like to run my Sanken CS3e mic into a Zoom h4n.. direct.. no mixer.

Since the Zoom h4n is so cheap, most people using it for sound are at an amateur level and using low grade to mid grade mics at best. Has anyone out there been in a fix and run a real high end condenser mic into the zoom h4n? I can't find any tests or samples on the internet...only recordings of the on board mics.

It has phantom power and manual level; control so this should work, but I am wondering about the quality of plugging a $1600.00 mic into a $300 recorder without even using a mixer. This could be a cheap solution until I can buy higher end gear again, but would people be able to tell the sound quality difference of the recorders and preamps, or is it the mic that is the key?
 
This is also why small business insurance is essential for indies and freelancers.

The pre-amps in the H4n are not going to be up to par with your former MixPre. Nowhere close. The Zoom recorders are fantastic for recording line-level mixer feeds, but when it comes to mic-level the pres aren't the cleanest and the phantom supply eats the batteries.
 
I've run good mics directly into it with good results. I think for film and video, it sounds slightly better than running the mic directly into a dvx or similar camera. Passable for most applications as far as I'm concerned. You can't adjust the gain on each channel independently though, which poses problems, especially if you like to have a 'safety' channel.
 
Rip... the mix was actually $1450 when I got it not $1600 now that I think of it. Still pricey. I chose that mic because it was simply the best sounding and best off axis rejection and best reach of every major mic that you usually see in film sound mixer's kits... including the high end schoeps.

I figured the Zoom's pres are nothing great but if it is usable I'll do it for now. $300.. hell.. that's cheap until I can buy the expensive toys again.

What about the fostex fr2le ? That would be the next step up but I fear there would be no difference in sound quality so why spend the money?
 
Blackout said:
What about the fostex fr2le ? That would be the next step up but I fear there would be no difference in sound quality so why spend the money?
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The pre-amps are much better in the FR2LE. You lose the bult-in XY mics, which are really handy for recording sound beds on the fly, but that's a minor sacrifice for better pre-amps and better functionality.
 
Yes, I am familiar with the oade brothers work. I have heard there mods on a Tascam HD-p2 and it really was a huge difference.

C2V, better functionality how? They both record dialog.. what does the fr2le do so much better? It seemed and awkward piece of gear when I used it on someone else's shoot... with a bad headphone amp.. very hissy.
 
Blackout said:
C2V, better functionality how? They both record dialog.. what does the fr2le do so much better? It seemed and awkward piece of gear when I used it on someone else's shoot... with a bad headphone amp.. very hissy.
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The Fostex is a little more robust, and has a few more externally-controlled features. It's also more stable as a bag recorder, and sits well on a cart. The Zoom is a great recorder (for line-level)... I have one and use it often. But it's a smaller device that can be more easily dropped, knocked around, etc. It also takes a little more menu-digging at times.
 
I get all of that... but what I am asking here is, can you really tel the difference in sound quality from going from a high end shotgun mic direct into the zoom or direct into the fr2le? Would someone else be able to tell?
 
muroshi said:
How is the FR2LE compared with H4n when used with a Sound Devices 302?
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Pre-amps are 90% of recording quality generally.

So a 302 / H4n would be notably better quality than a FR2LE, plus giving you a TON more flexibility.
 
The CS3e has a high output level, which will reduce typical deficiencies (noise and harmonic distortion) of inexpensive portable mic preamps, I think that the audio quality will be fine. However, the Sanken CS3e, like some other mics (including the AKG Blueline and other electret mics using 48V phantom) can have problems with the internal power supplies of small devices (such as Sound Devices mixers). I have not checked this with the CS3e and the H4, but the symptoms are a low frequency 'motor boating" (thumping sound) at high levels. If it occurs, the way to control it is by reducing the headphone levels and using low freq rolloff, both of which can usually be done within reason. The only certain way to prevent this occurance is with an external 48V phantom power supply such as the Denecke or PSC. I have not experienced this with problem the CS3e and H4 combiination (I have not used this combination at all), but since when it happens with the Sound Devices mic pres problem is attributed to the small size alloted for internal power supply capacitors, I suggest checking for the same problem with the H4.

Glen Trew
 
Well, as I said, I had a sound devices mix pre paired with the cs3e originally but it got swiped. I didn't experience any problems, as a matter of fact the sound out of it was phenomenal.

I'm just trying to get by for a few projects on the cheap right now tell I have the money to get some good mixing / recording gear again.
 
+1 on Sound Devices 302 and the design of their preamps. SD is the standard for many, many pros (check the RAMPS - rec.arts.production.movies.sound - group), and a bunch of options on their "low end" units, from 1 to 3 channels. My SD gear is better built than almost any photo or video item I've ever owned. I also own a FR2LE whose preamps are impressive for the price of the unit, but having controls on 2 faces of the unit is an ergonomic nightmare.
 
Blackout said:
... would people be able to tell the sound quality difference of the recorders and preamps, or is it the mic that is the key?
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Why don't you try it out and tell us? You have all the gear while all others on this board only have assumptions how this might sound.
 
Don't have a stand alone recorder right now. I was thinking of picking up the h4n as a temp solution till I can afford sound devices stuff again. If I do get one I'll do some tests of the sanen connected directly and I'll link the files here.
 
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