Zoom H4n Quick Question

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percoplus

Active member
On the XLR inputs, can you switch between mic and line level? I used one on a shoot last night at a club. Got an XLR stereo line feed from the house board. H4n peaked badly. I tried an attenuator, but all it did was lower the volume to unusable level. The Zoom works okay with condenser mics and phantom power. Would an XLR to 1/4" adapter help? Does it matter what type of connector is plugged in?

I was attempting to record ambient room sound while getting the house mix into the XLRs.

Also, can you mute/solo individual tracks? I searched frantically the entire manual with no luck.

The onboard stereo mics recorded ambient sound nicely, but line feed was unusable.

While I am here:

- Expected Battery life with two condensers attached +48v phantom?

- Battery life without phantom power?

- Is it just me, or does there seem to be a lot of unnecessary functions on this thing, while leaving some basic necessities out? I mean seriously, a mic/line switch is a must.
 
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The H4n cannot take true line-level in. You need to get in-line Line-to-Mic attenuators that take at least -40dB from the signal, ideally -50dB. Feeding line-level to the H4n's inputs risks damaging the pre-amps.
 
That doesn't make sense. Why would a recorder not accept line level inputs?

I put an attenuator on it -40 db. It helped the distortion a little bit, but the volume is too low to use.

I guess there's another reason to have a field mixer.
 
percoplus said:
That doesn't make sense. Why would a recorder not accept line level inputs?
Click to expand...

Because that's not the intended purpose for this tool. This is why it's important to do thorough research on any piece of gear before purchasing. The original H4 could take line-in. I have one, and the fact that the new H4n does not do this is a major reason why I still run my H4 since I use it to record from a field mixer.

percoplus said:
I put an attenuator on it -40 db. It helped the distortion a little bit, but the volume is too low to use.
Click to expand...

Well, that takes it down to mic level, but then you have to use the H4n's pre-amps (i.e. input gain controls) to bring the signal back up to proper recording level.

percoplus said:
I guess there's another reason to have a field mixer.
Click to expand...

If you have a mixer that can send mic-level out, you can use it. Of course, you're still going through the H4n's pre-amps at mic-level. At that point... what's the point?
 
percoplus said:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4n/index.php

On the Zoom website it shows a line level plugged into the H4n. I don't know who would not want line inputs.
Click to expand...

I assume you're referencing the "Combined XLR/phone connectors" section. Unfortunately, that's a very misleading description. Guitars are not line-level, yet it mentions "guitars or other line output sources such as mixing consoles."

This is where Zoom really screwed up on the H4n. The truth of the matter is that the H4n cannot accept line-level signals without lots of padding and doctoring. Forget what the Zoom website says, and go by the real-world experience of those who have used this device.

People who don't want line inputs are the ones who use these devices for field recording either with the unit itself or the unit and a couple of mics, i.e. no mixer. Yes, those people exist.

percoplus said:
C2V, what kind of field mixer are you using? I may be looking for one that can monitor and output 4 lines separately for multi-channel recording
Click to expand...

I've used my H4 with everything from field mixers like the Shure FP33, Sound Devices MixPre, and Sound Devices 302 to recording from large-format FOH consoles in live situations.

If you want a mixer that can iso different channels out for recording, you have a couple of options. Which one you get really depends on both your budget and your shooting situation.

1) If you need a baggable, completely portable mixer that can be battery-operated, then your best bet is a Sound Devices 552. It's not cheap, but each input has a direct out for multi-track recording. Just under $3000.

2) If you are in controlled environments with access to wall power, you could look at something like the Soundcraft Spirit M8. It's a small-format table mixer that has 8 mono inputs, each with a direct out for iso recording. It's bulky, not portable in the video production sense, and must have AC power. Just over $700.

3) Rather than wasting time and money on all of this, if multi-track recording is what you're ultimately after and don't really need the stereo mixer function, you could look at a portable multi-track recorder. On the low end, the TASCAM DR680 or the Edirol R-44. Both are about $1000. On the higher end, the Edirol R-4 Pro ($2300) or the Sound Devices 744T ($4100).
 
That's good information, thanks. Another problem I had with the Zoom is monitoring. With headphones plugged in, at 90% volume, I could not get a strong enough signal to tell if something was wrong. I could not solo or mute to see what was going on. I had to individually lower each track level to isolate one.

I'll tell you what, though. The onboard stereo mic is awsome. On playback it sounds as good as the two KSM27 condensers I had set up in the room (recorded to camera)

I found the Zoom very difficult to use, given everything else I have to watch (cameras, lighting, etc.) I have no use for a lot of the features and menu options. I don't understand most of them.

I guess the unit is just not for me and it will probably go back to Sam Ash. It's a tough choice because it does very well with microphones. I don't know if any other units can do as well with ambient sound. I have read that the R44 was pretty good and easy to use. I hate dealing with menus.

Again thanks for the input. I do another shoot tonight. Maybe I can make something work.
 
If you do the math....

If you do the math....

percoplus said:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4n/index.php

On the Zoom website it shows a line level plugged into the H4n. I don't know who would not want line inputs.
Click to expand...

The H4n stated levels, at the XLR input anyway, would max out at -12dBV with a 600ohm source impedance... that's exactly the theoretical limit of consumer line level signals. You probably want a 10dB pad on that anyway, and another 15dB if you're driving from a +4dBu output. I have used a direct box from -12dBV outputs to the XLR input with 10 or 20 dB pads, and it's worked well.

You also have to watch out. If you're trying to tap off someone else's mixer, you may have to live with whatever output might be free. Sometimes that's the room monitor output, which might well be on XLR outputs, but can go much hotter than +4dBu... many amps will take a signal as high as +24dBu.
 
C2V said:
I assume you're referencing the "Combined XLR/phone connectors" section. Unfortunately, that's a very misleading description. Guitars are not line-level, yet it mentions "guitars or other line output sources such as mixing consoles."

).
Click to expand...

do those dual jacks go to the exact same place? is it possible the 1/4 inch part will take line level, and the xlr goes to a mic preamp? maybe if the OP connected the mixer to the 1/4 input instead of the xlr it would not overload. Just guessing, but it would make sense.
 
From my own use of the Zoom H4n, the XLR input is mike level and uses the H4n preamps. The 1/4" TRS input is "sort of" line level and AFAIK bypasses the preamps. I used this adjustable pad (set at 20dB attenuation) http://www.beachaudio.com/Hosa/Att-448-p-139619.html?osCsid=uv9stu1tij3r6gbi5qet9pbn15 followed by this XLR to TRS cable http://www.beachaudio.com/Hosa/Gxp-143-p-107938.html to connect XLR line level out from a Sound Devices Mixpre to the 1/4" input on the H4n. It works perfectly. With the 1kHz testtone on the Mixpre, and the H4n level set at 28 the H4n meter reads -12. My recording (live theatre line level mixer feed into Mixpre into Zoom H4n) sounded great.
 
I want to record an audio live performance. My AHUJA TZA 7000 amplifier has
1. Pre out - 2mV/600 Ohm
2. Line out 1V/ 2Kilo Ohm


My ZOOM H1 voice recorder has line/mic in
Input impedance: 2kΩ (Input level: 0 to -39dBm)

Please advice how to record from the amplifier. From preamp out or line out to line in of the recorder or any other method.

Thanks in advance
 
A 1 Volt unbalanced line output is typically designed to work with a nominal -10dB input. Teac/Tascam used this measurement.
Use the 'Line out' of your mixer/amp to the 'Line in' on the Zoom. NOT .. Mic in.
 
Are all of these issues mainly when dealing with mics that require phantom power?

I just sold my DR-40 because I was having noise issues when I would get my wireless receiver too close to the recorder (within a foot). Or when I would use one of my Audio Technica ATR3350 wired lavs (the other worked fine with no noise). I figured there were shielding issues, so I just bought an H4N which I've used/rented a few times in the past.

My shotgun mic uses phantom power, or I can stick a battery in it for self-power. With the battery for self-power, I never had any noise/distortion issues with the DR-40. And, honestly, I rarely use my shotgun mic. On 90%+ of my shoots I use a Pro88W wireless lav. And I'm hoping that I'll have zero electronic noise/interference with the H4N when the receiver is mounted on the camera rig with the recorder.
 
I don't know about the Pro88W receiver's output config, but using Phantom Pwr. can cause a lots of problems in unbalanced connections.. excessive noise being one, short battery life, ect.
That said, I would not expect much from a Pro88W in the best of conditions...
 
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