ZOOM h4n preamps are crap
- Thread starter Blackout
- Start date
These posts worried me, so I set up a little comparison. Sorry, but I don't own professional audio equipment.
I set the Zoom to 70% mic input level so that a test sound source got to the -12dB level and then set up the Panasonic HMC151 audio controls to get the same level. I then buried my Rode NTG3 in basket of blankets and set up my Zoom H4n and Panasonic HMC151 to compare noise. I took the audio wav (48K, 16 bit) and the audio file from the Pany video file.
Playing these tracks back in FCP showed about an 8 dB advantage to the Zoom. Using battery or power supplies for either camera or zoom didn't make any meaningful difference.
Does this fit in with other's experience?
ksteiger
Well-known member
Jesus. What a pain. I think I ended up giving a client noisy tracks because all they had was an H4n. I was using a Rodes shotgun and Sennheiser wireless and it was noisy as hell. Embarrassing.
Of course they were also using a Canon 5D mkii so going straight into the cam was NOT an option. Good LORD give me a real camera. I can't wait for my FS700 to arrive...
Of course they were also using a Canon 5D mkii so going straight into the cam was NOT an option. Good LORD give me a real camera. I can't wait for my FS700 to arrive...
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Of course the pre's are crap. What do you expect for 300? Here's a little trick: Feed the H4n a decent signal that puts the minimal strain on the pre's in the H4n, and it a great recorder. Basically I am talking about a decent mixer. Let it do the Pre work.
LOL, my H4n is set at 2 on my record level, and let my mixer provide the gain structure. LOL, bet you never thought a H4n recorded audio for a network commercial, but it did.:shocked: I did the audio, used an H4n....and never had any questions of my work or equipment........something to think about. I will be the first to say I would love to upgrade my gear, because I know how to take advantage of the equipment. But I beat out a couple of folk with "superior" gear to mine, and you really cannot tell what gear I used.....because it is comparable to other commercials. So....it's one of those tried and true statements: it not the gear, its your experience and knowledge of the gear.
Recorders like the H4n, you have to look at them like simple recorders. No frills, no bennies. They record what you feed them. But if you depend on them to have stellar pre's? You have already lost the battle.
On top of that, with the mixer you can set up a "safety track".
No offense intended here, but any trained audio guy knows this info. Bet you thought it's just about sticking a mic out there and hitting record. You thought the vid side was tough, audio is the exact same type of discipline but just uses a different sense. I do sing it's praises, but I also know it's limitations. I will never just plug a mic into it and think its the best thing since sliced bread. That is the biggest mistake you can make with the H4n. Except maybe forgetting to put the SD card in. It's the same thing if you have a kick-a$$ camera and a set of primes.......if you can't set up the shot to take advantage of the gear you have.........you might as well have a camcorder. The result will be the same. You had a great mike and a decent recorder (not the greatest), and you chose to skip one part of the chain, and you got a bad result. No surprises there. But it wasn't just the signal chain, nor the H4n. It was a lack of knowledge on an aspect of film that is also an art. I know many film-makers think us audio guys are just trying to keep their work available. But your results just showed everyone what most of us are trying to telling you and other film-makers: audio needs to be handled by the same caliber of artist-technicians the visual side uses. Failure to give that same level of attention and care.......gives you the result you got.
That is what sets my results apart from yours. Bet you will have respect for us audio guys now......... Many film-makers need that bad experience to really understand that we are more than just PA's slinging the audio gear (would you put a PA in the position of being DP or 1st cam op?). Sad, but true. And your exact experience is what I wait for to be called in to take it to the next level, LOL. And happy to wait......because when you get the results you already have, you have already pre-qualified my results and deliverables.
LOL, my H4n is set at 2 on my record level, and let my mixer provide the gain structure. LOL, bet you never thought a H4n recorded audio for a network commercial, but it did.:shocked: I did the audio, used an H4n....and never had any questions of my work or equipment........something to think about. I will be the first to say I would love to upgrade my gear, because I know how to take advantage of the equipment. But I beat out a couple of folk with "superior" gear to mine, and you really cannot tell what gear I used.....because it is comparable to other commercials. So....it's one of those tried and true statements: it not the gear, its your experience and knowledge of the gear.
Recorders like the H4n, you have to look at them like simple recorders. No frills, no bennies. They record what you feed them. But if you depend on them to have stellar pre's? You have already lost the battle.
On top of that, with the mixer you can set up a "safety track".
No offense intended here, but any trained audio guy knows this info. Bet you thought it's just about sticking a mic out there and hitting record. You thought the vid side was tough, audio is the exact same type of discipline but just uses a different sense. I do sing it's praises, but I also know it's limitations. I will never just plug a mic into it and think its the best thing since sliced bread. That is the biggest mistake you can make with the H4n. Except maybe forgetting to put the SD card in. It's the same thing if you have a kick-a$$ camera and a set of primes.......if you can't set up the shot to take advantage of the gear you have.........you might as well have a camcorder. The result will be the same. You had a great mike and a decent recorder (not the greatest), and you chose to skip one part of the chain, and you got a bad result. No surprises there. But it wasn't just the signal chain, nor the H4n. It was a lack of knowledge on an aspect of film that is also an art. I know many film-makers think us audio guys are just trying to keep their work available. But your results just showed everyone what most of us are trying to telling you and other film-makers: audio needs to be handled by the same caliber of artist-technicians the visual side uses. Failure to give that same level of attention and care.......gives you the result you got.
That is what sets my results apart from yours. Bet you will have respect for us audio guys now......... Many film-makers need that bad experience to really understand that we are more than just PA's slinging the audio gear (would you put a PA in the position of being DP or 1st cam op?). Sad, but true. And your exact experience is what I wait for to be called in to take it to the next level, LOL. And happy to wait......because when you get the results you already have, you have already pre-qualified my results and deliverables.
Last edited:
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
No preamp "adds echo."
GJ
GJ
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Gregg, I think that needs more explanation. I don't have echo in my system.
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
Sorry Doc. I didn't have time to wade through all five pages (!) of this thread, so I'm not sure if it was covered, but one of the OP's claims was that the Zoom unit's sound was "echo-y." That could be location/mike placement, or a serious but improbable malfunction, but not the preamp itself. Good or bad, a pre just amplifies and passes mike signal; no echo involved. And as you aptly pointed out, it's not about the pres at a $300 price point.
GJ
GJ
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Ok, as long as the signal is "one direction" and no returns, there should be no "echo" derived from the gear itself. If you had a return returning into the gear, and there was cross talk....that I could see causing "echo" on the gear side.
Otherwise it is location-related. Even the greatest gear cannot overcome a echoey location. Because the audio impulses are what they are. You can lessen them....but never eliminate them.
Otherwise it is location-related. Even the greatest gear cannot overcome a echoey location. Because the audio impulses are what they are. You can lessen them....but never eliminate them.