Zoom H4n - best settings for recording dialog
- Thread starter pmk396
- Start date
Sam Mallery
Well-known member
I don't use MTR mode on the H4n. That's the multi-track mode, made for overdubbing. Why mess with that when you don't have to?
I set mine at 48kHz 24bit, and use Stereo mode, even if I'm only plugging in one mono microphone. It's not stereo if there is only one channel. It may be recording a blank track, but blank tracks don't eat up very much space on a memory card. 4CH mode is usually unnecessary. It doesn't do the production much good to have a recording of stereo sound away from the action on the built-in mics in my bag.
I set mine at 48kHz 24bit, and use Stereo mode, even if I'm only plugging in one mono microphone. It's not stereo if there is only one channel. It may be recording a blank track, but blank tracks don't eat up very much space on a memory card. 4CH mode is usually unnecessary. It doesn't do the production much good to have a recording of stereo sound away from the action on the built-in mics in my bag.
Petros Kolyvas
Well-known member
I use 4 channel mode all the time now (that I've been schooled on another forum) to track 4 isos out of my 552. I usually only use 4 tracks on a "normal" day. I have the 552 direct outs setup as mic-level pre-fade when using the H4n.
There's a mini-TRS (3.5mm) plug underneath the unit below the on-board mics which, when used, allows for input of two additional channels. CORRECTION: replaces the on-board mic channels with external inputs. Thus it becomes quite the decent 4-channel backup recorder. It's just in case the mix sent to camera needs some kind of fixing but I've found the recordings to be useable.
I had a custom cable made for the job; if you're a do-it-yourselfer (and using an SD mixer) you need to short pin 1 and 3 on both XLR inputs and tie them to the sleeve of the mini TRS jack. Then Tip-Left hot (Pin 2), Ring-Right hot (Pin 2). The cable I had ordered came with the cold terminals of the XLR inputs floated and I had to modify them to get rid of some awful ringing.
Now, however, it's been tested and works wonderfully. For anyone using a 552 (or a 442 or 302 I imagine) my H4n "gain" settings are 27 for the "mic" input and "41" on the XLR inputs when the signals from the mixer are mic-level. At this point -20dBFS lines up on both units and the 552 input limiters (if engaged) kick in just before the H4n clips. I can now just hook it up and go!
Last edited:
markblasco
Well-known member
I believe this is not correct (although someone can chime in if I am wrong). Recording a blank audio track as a WAV will use the exact same amount of space as recording someone talking. It is still recording the same numbers of 1's and 0's, although since it is blank, it will be all 0's. This may not be the same if you are recording an MP3, but you shouldn't be doing that if you are recording professional audio anyway.
Petros Kolyvas
Well-known member
You are correct (on both counts now that I pay closer attention - file sizes and not using MP3s). Recording uncompressed PCM audio will result in silence that takes up exactly as much space as, uh, not silence (?).
Chadfish
Veteran
That's right Mark. A blank audio file takes up the same space as one with sound. It's only space-saving if the tracks are recorded as discreet mono files. With the H4N you will get a stereo file with one channel having audio. Then you have to go edit that to take the mono side off the stereo file, and make a new mono file. It's not good to blend the 2 channels to do this either, as the "empty" side of the file can have noise. My H4 would record an odd digital sound on the unused track. I would take the file into an audio editor, select the used side of the file, then make a new mono track. Then take that mono track and place it in your timeline.
And the "settings" depend on the sensitivity of the mic, if you are talking about recording levels. People will try (and rightly so) to steer you to 24 bit recording because at that setting you can record at a much quieter level, and have much less risk of clipping. So the norm is 24 bit / 48k. Going higher will result in more battery drain, as it takes more processing to record at higher sample rates. 16 bit / 44.1 is, I believe what you get in 4 track mode. But you want 48k for video, not 44.1. Why not just buy a good sized card, and record at the proper setting of 24/48? Maybe invest in a preamp too when you get the money. That will help your sound too by getting the signal louder, which lets you turn down the H4N's recording level. That's where your hiss is at - when you use the recorder to pump up the level rather than a mixer.
Cheers
And the "settings" depend on the sensitivity of the mic, if you are talking about recording levels. People will try (and rightly so) to steer you to 24 bit recording because at that setting you can record at a much quieter level, and have much less risk of clipping. So the norm is 24 bit / 48k. Going higher will result in more battery drain, as it takes more processing to record at higher sample rates. 16 bit / 44.1 is, I believe what you get in 4 track mode. But you want 48k for video, not 44.1. Why not just buy a good sized card, and record at the proper setting of 24/48? Maybe invest in a preamp too when you get the money. That will help your sound too by getting the signal louder, which lets you turn down the H4N's recording level. That's where your hiss is at - when you use the recorder to pump up the level rather than a mixer.
Cheers
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Just FYI - to record dual mono on the H4n you have to choose "mono mix" from the INPUT menu while in Stereo Mode, I think.
I can't remember exactly as I don't have my zoom handy (no pun intended).
I'm pretty sure everyone is right thought that it won't increase your recording time at all, seeing as you're still recording to both channels.
bill totolo
Veteran
Great info, but I have a couple follow up questions.
1) Will recording in mono mix mitigate the need to delete a blank track?
2) If you end up with a blank track is a NLE appropriate to delete the existing blank track? I'd imagine I could put the wav file on a timeline and simply select, and delete the unused track.
Thanks,
Chadfish
Veteran
Hi Bill
If you can record signal from one mic into both channels, that is fine to do and use the stereo file in FCP or whatever, but watch that one channel isn't louder than the other and putting your dialogue off a bit to one side. When I import my EX1 clips, I have it default to 2 mono channels panned center.
And in FCP (not sure on other NLEs) you can put a stereo file on the timeline, and in the "Modify" menu you un-check "Stereo Pair", as well as deactivating the "Linked Selection" button located next to the "Snapping" button at the top right area of the timeline. They are green buttons. Then you can select the unused channel and delete (non-destructively). Furthermore, you can copy the channel with signal on it and paste it under the original, which gives you more volume in cases where pushing up the clip volume to the max 12db isn't enough.
If you can record signal from one mic into both channels, that is fine to do and use the stereo file in FCP or whatever, but watch that one channel isn't louder than the other and putting your dialogue off a bit to one side. When I import my EX1 clips, I have it default to 2 mono channels panned center.
And in FCP (not sure on other NLEs) you can put a stereo file on the timeline, and in the "Modify" menu you un-check "Stereo Pair", as well as deactivating the "Linked Selection" button located next to the "Snapping" button at the top right area of the timeline. They are green buttons. Then you can select the unused channel and delete (non-destructively). Furthermore, you can copy the channel with signal on it and paste it under the original, which gives you more volume in cases where pushing up the clip volume to the max 12db isn't enough.
Thanks for the info! This is exactly the cable info I need to diy the proper cable. I need to run two Sennheiser G2s into the external microphone input. Right now, I'm running a Mixpre for Zoom's line inputs. I won't be able to ride the levels on the wireless mics or adjust them individually, but I think I can ballpark the levels to make it work until I can get another Mixpre or a better mixing solution.
Btw, I recognized your name from your video. https://vimeo.com/19134430 It's where I started learning about using the Zoom better.
I would only want a second Mixpre to be able to have more control over the levels during 4 channel recording. As is, I use a Sescom -25db from the tape out on the Mixpre and run it into the 1/4" on the Zoom to bypass the Zoom's noisy preamps. Then I will run the two Sennheisers into the external mic input on the zoom.
The only problem with this set up is you can't control the individual channels on the Zoom's external mic input. With the additional mixer, I would.
The only problem with this set up is you can't control the individual channels on the Zoom's external mic input. With the additional mixer, I would.
I just purchased a H4n and am having some difficulty figuring it all out. When I record in Stereo mode there is a lot of back noise and the audio is not nearly as clear as I had hoped for. Would buying a mic to plug into the H4n solve this problem? Or is it something in my settings?
I also have heard mixed reviews about buying a Sescom -25db cable. I saw your youtube video about how to use it, but I've heard a lot of people claim that they are not necessary for quality audio.
I am looking for the easiest way to get good quality dialogue recorded and am looking for any available advice!
I also have heard mixed reviews about buying a Sescom -25db cable. I saw your youtube video about how to use it, but I've heard a lot of people claim that they are not necessary for quality audio.
I am looking for the easiest way to get good quality dialogue recorded and am looking for any available advice!
I just purchased a H4n and am having some difficulty figuring it all out. When I record in Stereo mode there is a lot of back noise and the audio is not nearly as clear as I had hoped for. Would buying a mic to plug into the H4n solve this problem? Or is it something in my settings?
I also have heard mixed reviews about buying a Sescom -25db cable. I saw your youtube video about how to use it, but I've heard a lot of people claim that they are not necessary for quality audio.
I am looking for the easiest way to get good quality dialogue recorded and am looking for any available advice!
Steve House
Veteran
Minor quibble - a stereo file is the same size whether you record on one track or two. A blank channel has the same number of bits recorded in it as a channel with sounds.
Steve House
Veteran
If you want to record actual stereo with an external mic you need either a stereo mic or 2 regular mics. When you say you have "back noise" what do you mean? Is it electrical noise, like hiss from noisy preamps etc or do you mean you have a lot of superfluous background sounds from the location - passing traffic, voices, etc - recorded in addition to the desired recording? What are you trying to record and how are you placing the recorder in relation to the subject?
What do you want to connect the recorder to and for what purpose that you think you might need a padded cable like the Sescom? You haven't provided enough information to say if it would be something you could use or not.
Last edited:
Pedantic Sound
Member
There is no way to record just one track with the H4N.
Chadfish
Veteran
Brideau05
What are you recording with the H4N? If you are recording dialog, you need to use a mono mic, not the built-in stereo mics. And you need to get that mic close to the source. The further away you are the more room noise you will hear. And if anyone is recording into one channel, make sure you aren't hearing the unused channel when you play back the file, because there will most likely be noise on that track. When you don't plug a mic into the XLR, but still record, a lot of times you have added noise from the unterminated input. There are ways to separate the L/R tracks depending on your NLE. In Final Cut Pro you uncheck "Stereo Pair" in the Modify menu. Or if you have an audio editor, you can select just the channel you used, then copy, then paste it to a new file and get rid of the stereo file. I don't know if the H4N has this ability, but if you could take one input and send it to both the left and right channels, you could record then at different levels as a sort of safety to protect from clipping. But I doubt the H4N can do that. It's kind of a consumer toy, designed to record music in stereo.
What are you recording with the H4N? If you are recording dialog, you need to use a mono mic, not the built-in stereo mics. And you need to get that mic close to the source. The further away you are the more room noise you will hear. And if anyone is recording into one channel, make sure you aren't hearing the unused channel when you play back the file, because there will most likely be noise on that track. When you don't plug a mic into the XLR, but still record, a lot of times you have added noise from the unterminated input. There are ways to separate the L/R tracks depending on your NLE. In Final Cut Pro you uncheck "Stereo Pair" in the Modify menu. Or if you have an audio editor, you can select just the channel you used, then copy, then paste it to a new file and get rid of the stereo file. I don't know if the H4N has this ability, but if you could take one input and send it to both the left and right channels, you could record then at different levels as a sort of safety to protect from clipping. But I doubt the H4N can do that. It's kind of a consumer toy, designed to record music in stereo.