Zoom F4 discontinued
- Thread starter Noiz2
- Start date
JAMedia
Well-known member
Zoom Japan, North America and UK all list it as current OTOH the F4, F6 and F8 F8n do seem to rather crowd the market
Amazon US list the F4 as available but Amazon UK have as "Currently unavailable.We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock. " which is what they normally say when it is discontinued.
Also a couple of UK distributors are now listing the F4 as "This product is currently not available for purchase" and others don't seem to be listing it at all.
So it looks like the end of the line for the F4 A pity but that's progress I suppose.
I agree with Scott, above, if you are looking for a 4/6 channel field recorder the F4 is a great choice and I am sure there will be bargains to be had.
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paulears
Veteran
Somehow I doubt it - there won't be bargains when nobody has them? If they were piled up in warehouses because they didn't sell, you get bargains to clear stock, but when they're already out of stock, the game is over! Anyone with them left will hold onto them if the big boys are out!
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Seen some barely used ones lately for $300.00-$350.00 here and there.
G
Guest
Guest
I recently compared the Zoom F4, and as a camera person, it was too big for me. Seems better for a dedicated audio recordist, and considering they have options, the F4 may have just gotten lost in the mix...
At this time, Sound Devices 744T are $500 used.
But the F4 at first glance seemed an ambitious product. Each channel had its own meter, timecode or whatever had BNC connector, dual SD cards, and preamps that were pretty good, and compared favorably to the Mixpre3/6 Kashmir, at least on a technical level.
At this time, Sound Devices 744T are $500 used.
But the F4 at first glance seemed an ambitious product. Each channel had its own meter, timecode or whatever had BNC connector, dual SD cards, and preamps that were pretty good, and compared favorably to the Mixpre3/6 Kashmir, at least on a technical level.
JAMedia
Well-known member
A wise friend of mine once said two things of note (when the latest "to die for" Nikon Camera came out)
1 has your current kit stopped working or it's performance degraded? To which the answer was "no". Then why do you need something new?
2 EVERYTHING you have seen (or in this case heard) so far and for the next couple of months has been made with something other than this new kit. Will the world notice a sudden step change in quality from next month? Of course the answer is no.
As some one just as wise said "G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money."
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Ha, ha, that's good!
FWIW, I strategized very hard when I bought my SD Mix Pre 3. I heavily considered the F4 instead and I still think the F4 is a great little recorder.
But I have always loved the sound of the SD pre amps and after I heard how nice the Kashmir pre amps sounded, I had to get the Mix Pre 3 instead,
even though the Zoom has better connectivity and dual card recording. I haven't regretted it. I've owned two other Zoom recorders and I have not
been impressed with their ruggedness and build, although I think the F series recorders are built much better than their cheaper counterparts.
Interestingly, after trying out a few 32-bit recorders, the feature kind of seems to be of limited use, mainly if you record sound effects or gun shots,
that sort of stuff. If you record dialog, the limiters on all of the recorders are pretty good these days and you should at least be in the neighborhood
of setting correct gain and gain staging anyway. I guess if you're a dumbass and don't know how to record sound, the 32 bit could be a bit useful
but NOBODY in the audio post game willingly is dealing with 32-bit files. If you send them to audio post, they are going to tell your producer
your files are defective, unless you set it all up beforehand and they are willing to deal with them or convert them to 24 bit.
It's more like 32-bit is an amazing technical achievement, but do we all really need it today in 2020? Not really, except is very specific and relatively
rare instances. 32-bit reminds me of FF. Would I mind having it? No, it's cool. Would I ever base buying a device on if it had FF or 32-bit FPA? Not me.
I've been looking at some used Mix Pre 10s, not the 10 IIs. If I can find the right deal, I may buy the non-32 bit model because I don't ever record SFX
these days so why else do I need 32-bit FPA recording?
Kubicixfactor
Active member
This brought a smile to my face. Off topic I know but part of my business for the past five years has been still photography - I have a pair of Canon 1DXs which I bought in 2015, one new, one used. The work I do hasn't changed and the images are still perfectly usable, so I've resisted upgrading because I have no justifiable need. It's easy to get excited by the marketing of new bells and whistles but unless the business changes significantly to require different kit then I don't see any point, at least until wear and tear/reliability demands it.
JAMedia
Well-known member
I agree with you re the Zoom F4 and the Mix Pre. For serious sound tech's the Mix Pre's have the edge. However for many people the F series are very good value for money and will do all that is needed. I have an F4 with the add on 2 port extender which gives me a total of 6 ports on a field recorder. I could not at the time justify the additional cost of a MixPre-6 (which is now also a legacy product!)
The 32 bit is an interesting point. Much bigger files but does it really add anything useful? Which brings me to a related point.
A month or two ago (it's hard to tell in lockdown) I watched a video on a modern 55" 4K LCD tv. The point was could you spot the cuts that were in 1080 rather than 4K. After the 2 minute video there was no consensus and some people wondered if it was all 4K or all 1080. No one was accurately guessing the 1080 vs 4K. It was then revealed that half a dozen cuts in there had been recorded at 720! No one was reliably calling them out as 1080!
The point is we are now getting [ comparatively ] inexpensive kit that goes past the point of resolution for 98% of humans. All it does is increase the filesize and processing times it doesn't add anything in real terms.
I get amused when I see people arguing in forums (audio, video, photo etc ) to 10 decimal places on specifications when humans can't resolve past 5 decimal places
The 32 bit is an interesting point. Much bigger files but does it really add anything useful? Which brings me to a related point.
A month or two ago (it's hard to tell in lockdown) I watched a video on a modern 55" 4K LCD tv. The point was could you spot the cuts that were in 1080 rather than 4K. After the 2 minute video there was no consensus and some people wondered if it was all 4K or all 1080. No one was accurately guessing the 1080 vs 4K. It was then revealed that half a dozen cuts in there had been recorded at 720! No one was reliably calling them out as 1080!
The point is we are now getting [ comparatively ] inexpensive kit that goes past the point of resolution for 98% of humans. All it does is increase the filesize and processing times it doesn't add anything in real terms.
I get amused when I see people arguing in forums (audio, video, photo etc ) to 10 decimal places on specifications when humans can't resolve past 5 decimal places
G
Guest
Guest
Legend. Sticky status.
JAMedia
Well-known member
I researched those points.
Research is plagiarism from multiple sources.
Plagiarism is taking from a single source.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Yep, it does seem like 32bit float=8k in terms of necessity. I will be trolling for a nice multichannel, boring old 24bit recorder on the cheap as time marches onward.
NorBro
Major Contributor
32-bit is absolutely not like 8K video.
It is a rare feature that's life-changing in video and audio production.
Maybe not much will change for many tried-and-true video guys/gals whom have been capturing sound for 20-30 years, but there is nothing like it once you work with it.
A very significant development in the last half-century.
It is a rare feature that's life-changing in video and audio production.
Maybe not much will change for many tried-and-true video guys/gals whom have been capturing sound for 20-30 years, but there is nothing like it once you work with it.
A very significant development in the last half-century.
David W. Jones
Veteran
I recently put together a fairly small and versatile audio recording kit, compared to the size of my usual sound bag.
It is based around a Zoom F6 fitted in an ORCA OR-268 low profile bag, which I have added extra removable pouches holding Sennheiser receivers.
Using the smaller Sennheiser 512p G4 units allows double the mics compared to the size of my Lectrosonics UCR411a receivers space wise, at less weight.
The F6 lets me record my standard 24bit files, as well as a backup at 32bit float simultaneously. It is really pretty cool for such a compact and light weight setup.
It is based around a Zoom F6 fitted in an ORCA OR-268 low profile bag, which I have added extra removable pouches holding Sennheiser receivers.
Using the smaller Sennheiser 512p G4 units allows double the mics compared to the size of my Lectrosonics UCR411a receivers space wise, at less weight.
The F6 lets me record my standard 24bit files, as well as a backup at 32bit float simultaneously. It is really pretty cool for such a compact and light weight setup.
I won't be buying a 32 bit device anytime soon. My F8 is more than satisfactory. My DNA drives me to want the latest. That doesn't mean I act on it. The notion that things are good enough is one that I often profess. But every time I do, progress moves on and I find out I was wrong.
32 bit is brilliant. It's so brilliant it has production mixers on the JW forum have contimplated their future. Consider if the next version of the Deity BP-TRX has 5G mobile in it and wirelessly and autonomously sends the 32 bit files to the clients editing server and the camera does the same with metadata such that they are all matched and synced and set up for editing autonomously. Suppose the editing system automatically normalizes all the sound files and does a first grading of all video clips based upon the clients pre-production input. The editor could start editing the commercial while your still on the set and send back the rough cut for approval. What if AI learned the editor's style, could scan the clips, and make progressively better rough cuts in real time that the client could view in the video village as each take was completed?
In other words, whatever we have now may be good enough now. But not for long.
32 bit is brilliant. It's so brilliant it has production mixers on the JW forum have contimplated their future. Consider if the next version of the Deity BP-TRX has 5G mobile in it and wirelessly and autonomously sends the 32 bit files to the clients editing server and the camera does the same with metadata such that they are all matched and synced and set up for editing autonomously. Suppose the editing system automatically normalizes all the sound files and does a first grading of all video clips based upon the clients pre-production input. The editor could start editing the commercial while your still on the set and send back the rough cut for approval. What if AI learned the editor's style, could scan the clips, and make progressively better rough cuts in real time that the client could view in the video village as each take was completed?
In other words, whatever we have now may be good enough now. But not for long.
Run&Gun
Veteran
It’s funny you mention that. Two weeks ago I bought a set of Westone triple driver IEM’s on a DealZone sale(pretty hot deal, more than 50% off) and they included the Bluetooth cable for free($150 itself). The next day they listed the BT cable as out-of-stock. Then a few days later as discontinued. But Westone still had it listed as current and for sale on their site(at least last week).
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
No 32 bit is closer to RAW. The flexibility is what sets it apart. I suspect it will become the production standard because you are getting a lot bigger bang for the buck than say higher bit rates, and it's not that much bigger a file than 48/24 wich is the standard now. It will be huge with OMB folks. If I were doing a lot of production or nature recording it would be a strong temptation. For my needs not so much. I have rarely had a surprise clip and the MixPre limiters have caught them all. The F4 (8)'s new limiters seem almost as good so... The times when over load has been an issue have been sounds so loud that the mic was clipping and nothing fixes that but having a mic that can handle higher SPL. Actually I did once have the low end of an F14 warming up crash the HD in the recorder, but flash drives don't have that problem and the mic probably would have clipped if the recorder hadn't crashed.
But if I was doing a pot of production work, especially doc.s I would love the added ulcer reduction of 32 bit float.
Bassman2003
Veteran
I did not say it wasn't great technology. I said it wasn't a necessity, sort of like 8k. If you capture the audio vaguely decently one will not be able to tell the difference between 24bit and 32bit float for most applications. Sure it has its advantages. If it allows for one to purchase a 24bit unit at a low price then that is an advantage as well If not, then I might get the F6 someday.
If not, then I might get the F6 someday.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I agree with you technologically, it impresses the heck out of me. But my Mix Pre doesn't have it (v1). The sound mixers I hire are still using their 633s, Zaxcoms and Scorpios without it.
Sound Pros seem to have given a collective yawn to it though, spend some time over at the JW Sound Forums and see how many pros are whinging that their recorders don't have 32-bit.
I have not seen a single one in six months and if you are delivering to a post sound department, most don't even know 32-bit FPA exists and don't have the time to deal with it.
There are always new technologies that seem amazing and objectively are amazing. But if there isn't a practical need for it in a professional workflow, they become somewhat
irrlevant. I don't think 32-bit FPA will be that way, It will catch on with pros eventually but it may take years, even a decade. Location and post
sound pivot far slower than video. For me, after using it, it doesn't really apply to my day to day shooting and workflow. I do correct gain staging, I monitor and
adjust levels and the limiter in my Mix Pre is very forgiving. it would be different if I were recording drag cars, gun shots, hurricanes and the like where 700dB of headroom is handy.
But I don't. I'm mainly recording interviews and presentations and 32-bit FPA for that, simply isn't needed or wanted. Maybe if an actor screams or laughs REALLY loudly
but that's not a daily occurence for most people.