Zoom F4 Availabe

Noiz2 said:
I had assumed the F8 would be my first choice but really the added buttons and MUCH better battery life make the F4 very appealing. It looks like they really listened to peoples comments about the F8 and made a number of changes that addressed many of them.
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OH! How much better is the Zoom F4's battery life?
 
F8
When recording 8 channels at 48 kHz/24-bit
Alkaline batteries: 2.5 hours or more
NiMH: 7 hours or more

F4
Continuous Recording Time: When recording 8 channels at 48 kHz/24-bit with headphones
Alkaline batteries: 9.0 hours or more
NiMH (2450mAh): 10.5 hours or more
Lithium Batteries: 16.5 hours or more
 
Noiz2, thanks for posting those timing differences. Just so I can understand, are those times with a couple or more channels of phantom power engaged, or without?

No worries and thanks again.
 
One very serious drawback in the F4, from my point of view, is lack of a USB power option. This means I cannot use a powerbank, which I think is the best way to power a mobile recorder. Batteries are a huge pain - you get relatively limited time of use, there are bunches of them to keep track of and constantly power them or change them. A couple of powerbanks take care of all that - you can be sure at all times that you have enough power to go for days, and as soon as one is discharged, you pop in the second one, while you recharge the first - a very solid dependable system. I have never used a hirose connector battery solution, but this is a legacy solution that's high in the hassle factor with less usual batteries and not nearly as capacious as a usb powerbank. This lack of usb power is a SERIOUS drawback of the Zoom 4/8. It's enough to stop me from getting it at this point in time. For now, I'll continue on with my Tascam 70D and 60Dmkii - and wait for someone to come up with something competitive with the F4/8 but with a better power solution.
 
OldCorpse said:
One very serious drawback in the F4, from my point of view, is lack of a USB power option.
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I don't know what you are talking about. You can get a 12~16 volt power pack that will run the recorder for days if you don't mind the weight.

On the other hand 8 NiMH gives you 4+ hours per charge with everything turned on, and you can buy extra battery cases to make it only take a minute to swap batteries.

However, it sounds like you don't really need another recorder.
 
OldCorpse said:
One very serious drawback in the F4, from my point of view, is lack of a USB power option. This means I cannot use a powerbank, which I think is the best way to power a mobile recorder. Batteries are a huge pain - you get relatively limited time of use, there are bunches of them to keep track of and constantly power them or change them. A couple of powerbanks take care of all that - you can be sure at all times that you have enough power to go for days, and as soon as one is discharged, you pop in the second one, while you recharge the first - a very solid dependable system. I have never used a hirose connector battery solution, but this is a legacy solution that's high in the hassle factor with less usual batteries and not nearly as capacious as a usb powerbank. This lack of usb power is a SERIOUS drawback of the Zoom 4/8. It's enough to stop me from getting it at this point in time. For now, I'll continue on with my Tascam 70D and 60Dmkii - and wait for someone to come up with something competitive with the F4/8 but with a better power solution.
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That Tascam 70D USB has never worked for me and i don't know why, it works for some minutes and then goes off, is my 70D defective?
 
OldCorpse said:
One very serious drawback in the F4, from my point of view, is lack of a USB power option.
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From a pure cost standpoint I can see the issue but I would NEVER be using a USB port to power a recorder in the field. It's a weak/ fragile connector that pulls out easily and is easily damaged. It works decently for devices that are on a 1 -2 year life cycle but if I'm dropping close to over a grand on a recorder I expect to be using it for some time to come.

HiRose is not a "legacy" connector. That's like calling XLR a legacy connector. It's a connector that has some history and is still an industry standard because it works well.

BTW you can use power banks, you just need to get ones that have outputs other than just USB. There are quite a few to choose from. They are marginally pricier than USB only power banks but not a huge difference and the R4 includes the adapter cable so a breeze to use.
 
IronFilm said:
Wow, WOW! That is a *big* increase!
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You can see the various battery VS record time numbers on the SPEC.s tab on B&H for the two recorders.

I believe these were for 2 tracks with phantom and headphones.

Some combos are not as big a difference but the R4 seems to always be getting about twice the battery life.

It may be because the color display has a backlight?

For me I would be replacing a two track recorder. I doubt that I would very often go to more than two tracks. The advantage for me is the current recorder is at 10+ years old and so is in a zone where problems would not be a big surprise, I occasionally have a need for more tracks and I occasionally would have use of TC. Also the preamps on the R4 (8) are good enough that I would not need to have the MixPre as a front end and that would effectively give me two primary systems and that could be very useful on a couple of gigs coming up.

The irony is that the F4 would come in at about 3/4 the price of my current recorder (not counting the MixPre) in non inflation adjusted dollars. In adjusted dolars it's probably like 1/2.
 
I purchased an battery system ten or so years ago (one of the smarter things I did), so internal battery run time has never been a major concern. The internal batteries act as a back-up.
 
Ya, I run my sound bags on NP1 batteries. Since my audio bag has a mixer/recorder, wireless receivers, IFB+Hop transmitters, having reliable connections (better than USB for this use) and a single battery (with a Remote Audio Battery Distribution System) is a good and simple thing.

I used to use IDX batteries, but a few years ago I switched to batteries4broadcast and have had very positive experiences. Starting with delivery where FedEx dropped off my order to a place a couple blocks from me (without signature), but insisted that they'd delivered. Total pain, B4B sent a replacement shipment right away while they sorted things out with FedEx (like many dealers, they carry more weight with shippers than me). All got sorted, FedEx found the first shipment, apologized, etc.

And the batteries are working fine. 60Wh Li-Ion NP1 for $115. Some other people I know are also using their (and GlobalMediaPro's) NP1, V-Mount, and camcorder batteries. Not as cheap as the cheapest eBay generics, perhaps not as robust as as IDX, A-B, etc. But working well.
http://batteries4broadcast.com

And like Rick and others, internal batteries on devices are just for backup.

ANYWAY... I might switch over to some other powering solution in my next audio bag (I'd love to have fewer types of batteries and chargers to haul around), but I doubt I'll rely on USB power...I'd worry about the connectors breaking or slipping out.

But the F4 is still interesting... I would like to have a better grip on how its preamps perform (not swayed by the B&H comparison)...if it's fine/better being a bit bucket behind a good small mixer (being fed line through those damn TRS connectors) and if it's reliable enough to depend on in wild-and-wooly conditions.

Looking forward to more hands-on reports...
 
I just finished a 12 day feature shoot (yes it was an insane schedule) with a lot of dialog, int and ext, a party scene and 2 bar scenes. I started with the H6 and half way through my Zoom H4 arrived. We had a day off on day 7 so I could get familiar with the controls and then jumped right in with the F4. I love this machine. Now I know it's not a Sound Design $3000 recorder, but it's an amazing machine for the money. I used the dual track feature for dramatic dialog and ran a scream track and a whisper track with my Countryman lavs, and sometimes a boom track too. True there is no phantom power on 5/6 with the Zoom XLR Module, but I was able to work around that with a simple Y splitter to get a total of 6 tracks when I needed them. I used a V Mount Switronix battery with a D-tap & the DC connector supplied. It will run for 2 14 hour days straight on a charge. Kept AA's in the bay for backup. Most of the time I mounted it on a small tripod with hangers for the wireless receivers and the battery pack, easier on the back and neck, although I did some run and gun (permitless stolen shots) with the Stinger bag that was part of the package from B&H. The B&W screen is MUCH easier viewing in daylight than the color display on the H6, so that's a big plus. There's a bunch of other much more professional features that I will go through if anyone is interested. Again, a great value for the dollar, that get's you into a host of pro features way beyond the H series.
 
Nice to see others now reporting real world experience with the Zoom F4.

OK, if I read the manual correctly, the F4 does have remote record/stop from the camera. In "EXT AUTO TC RUN" the recorder automatically turns record on and off when it receives a timecode signal. So if you camera has a TC out you can sync the recorder to the camera.

Which brings up a question???

Now my old old Sony PDX10's do not have TC out. But they do have USB streaming. Now, if I was to get a USB to BCN cable and connect to the F4's "TC IN", would it ignor everything but the TC on the stream and sync to the cameras TC?

I was thinking of this as a way to sync the F4 to the cameas RTC, but for tethered use it would be nice to be able to lock them to each other. I guess all I would need is and RCA to BNC adapter to find out as I have a RCA/USB cable laying about. Probably too simple, and too cheap to work. What do you guys think?

ADDED: Aw, crap, that is not a USB cable, no idea what that plug goes to. The used to be electronics store at the wanna be mall did have a RCA to BNC adapter that of course is no use.
 
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Very unlikely to work anyway. TC though it is a data stream is more like an audio signal. When I have heard it it sounded more like the old FSK sync signals. I don't think a high data stream like a USB feed would be at all comparable.

You might be able to find something that could read it. I suspect that the port you are talking about is a mini HDMI port. So IF your camera sends TC then something like the DR-701D could read it. Not a big help since it doesn't have a TC out but if it can read it then I bet there is a stand alone TC extractor around someplace. The catch is that having a number of TC boxes from the good old daysthe cost of that box may be close to what you paid for the F4.
 
Noiz2 said:
Very unlikely to work anyway.
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I've come to that conclusion myself.

I did buy the F4 with the thought I would someday get a camcorder with TC in/out. That does not seem likely. But then, getting something like the F4 did not seem likely either.
 
I run my Sound Devices 552 using HiRose with a battery cup to a BP-U60 or BP-U30.

BP-U60 batteries are dirt cheap, and I'll be able to power the F4 / F8 the same way when I buy one. Or even a 633!

Plus the work on my Sony PMW-F3 as well, and even on an FS7 plus EX1, and I expect an FS5 too should I ever get one?
 
How are the headphone outputs on F4/F8s?
That's a thing that is very rarely mentioned in reviews of these kind of recorders. But a very very important thing... if they have bad headphone amps you can't tell what you are doing...
For example, my FS700 records perfectly usable audio for most situations, but the headphone out is more or less useless... so you can only very roughly ballpark what you're doing... Fortunately I had a music studio for 10+ years so know a thing or two about mic placement and can get it 'ok' by eye and meters usually. But having a quality headphone amp would be much nicer ;)
 
dmitrizigany said:
How are the headphone outputs on F4/F8s?
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The headphone output is OK. They will not blow your eardrums however. I usually have mine set about 3 o'clock outdoors.

I have also found that you can plug you headphones into the Sub 1&2 output jack. That can blow your eardrums.
 
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