Zoom F4 as a Mixer

graywolf

graywolf

Well-known member
I know, there has been a thread here that said it does not work. But, I finally got around to trying it. Seems to work fine.

First I set the main 1/2 output to +12db, which ought to be the equivalent of a +4 line level. Plugged that into the line in on the camcorder. Set the camcorder levels to mid scale. Set the F4 trim to mid scale. Fired everything up and talked into the microphone plugged into the F4. Levels went up and down in the camcorder as I changed the trim on the F4.

Audio out from the camcorder seems about the same as usual.

Apparently, Zoom intends the F4 to be used with a DSLR as the Sub Out can be set to mic level, but not the Main Out, Sigh! I guess I could crank the output down on the F4 and use the mic level input on the camcorder. I would need to experiment a bit to see how things work in more detail.

Next test will be trying with multiple inputs to the F4.
 
I keep meaning to do a decent video of this, but can not seem to find a round tuit, so here is my test video:


Anyways it does show, contrary to some reports that the F4 can be used as a mixer. And that it can be set to +4 output.
 
Why are you pushing the output of the F4 to maximum and then feeding the camera?
Your way by pushing the level you reduces the headroom of the F4 and then it hits a pad to lower the level to go into the camera audio circuit.
Many people are still in the mindset that there are 2 circuits (mic & line) like in analogue days for inputs of devices, these days in the digital world there is normally just 1 input circuit often with a gain control on it that goes from mic levels to higher levels.

A better way to do it is to drop the level (or leave it as standard -10) and go in @ mic level.... much better s/n
 
Re the ZoomF4 I have one and like it but it is a field recorder rather than a mixer, though it can be used as an audio interface-mixer. Zoom have now released (or currently in August 2017 about to release) this https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/production-recording/live-sound-recording/zoom-livetrak-l-12 which is more a conventional mixing desk with a record facility.

Don't you just hate modern technology? As soon as you invest in a great tool i.e. the F4 that is amazing value for money with a ground breaking package when 12 months later they bring out something even better and more appropriate for your needs. Actually whilst I want a LiveTrak12 I actually need an F4 :-) The question is how to convince the Finance Director both are essential :-)


Also you might want to look at the lighting/white balance in the videos?
BTW I thought you were going to do a series of videos of an old timer (you) talking to some kids about the past cutting in old pictures and video clips? I was looking forward to that.
I am trying to do the same with my Father. Getting him to talk about his past. (before he forgets it)


I am convinced that the auto spell checker cuts in after I have written stuff when I press the submit button
 
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While the L-12 looks interesting it has the downfall of having NO Aux outputs... the H/P outs can be either main mix or pre-fader ONLY.....
Great for music recording but not great as a conventional mixer (with an onboard recorder).
The A&H Qu16 is a better option if your after a mixer / recorder, yes more expensive but does a LOT more.
 
OzGizmo said:
While the L-12 looks interesting it has the downfall of having NO Aux outputs... the H/P outs can be either main mix or pre-fader ONLY.....
Great for music recording but not great as a conventional mixer (with an onboard recorder).
The A&H Qu16 is a better option if your after a mixer / recorder, yes more expensive but does a LOT more.
Click to expand...


Thanks.... the problem is (always) the extra missing feature that means you need the next (more expensive) one up the range.

For me being all digital and looking to record rather than do live music I think I can live with the lack of Aux Out. BTW the Qu16 os more expensive than the Live track which is more expensive than the F4.... Though Adorama are saying of the A&H Qu16 "We are sorry, this item is no longer available." It's as I said nothing stands still in this game. :-(
 
OzGizmo said:
While the L-12 looks interesting it has the downfall of having NO Aux outputs... the H/P outs can be either main mix or pre-fader ONLY.....
Click to expand...

Actually not the case. Each of the HP outs can have it's own mix, and those settings can be saved.

The biggest catch with music is probably (haven't looked through the whole manual yet) you can't add tracks while playing back other tracks. That tends to be rather crucial. Though of course you can use it as an interface to say Reaper, but that adds a computer and monitor.

All in all this looks like it would have been a decent alternative for most of the times I use Boom Recorder. It certainly doesn't have some of what I really like about Boom Recorder, but that might be a fair trade for the smaller "carry on footprint". Hook this up with a portable power supply...
 
Actually I was wrong, you can play and record at the same time. This would make a nice little "porta-studio" kind of set up.

And BTW the MSRP is $599
 
Noiz2 said:
Actually not the case. Each of the HP outs can have it's own mix, and those settings can be saved
Click to expand...

Really? ...... So please have a look through the manual / block diagram and let me know how to do a POST fader aux send?
Pre fader yes..... Post fader NO
 
OzGizmo said:
Why are you pushing the output of the F4 to maximum and then feeding the camera?
Your way by pushing the level you reduces the headroom of the F4 and then it hits a pad to lower the level to go into the camera audio circuit.
Many people are still in the mindset that there are 2 circuits (mic & line) like in analogue days for inputs of devices, these days in the digital world there is normally just 1 input circuit often with a gain control on it that goes from mic levels to higher levels.

A better way to do it is to drop the level (or leave it as standard -10) and go in @ mic level.... much better s/n
Click to expand...

Because my camcorder has +4dB input. Where do I lose headroom?

The boost is only on the main outs, it comes after the recording. If I increase the gain at the mic's then I am going to get clipping. Mic level on my camcorders goes through the preamp's which are not as good as the F4's (old old camcorders). Note that in the video both the F4 and the camcorder are about in the center of the gain range.

If you want mic level output from the F4 that is an option on the Sub Outs, but not the Main Outs. Probably because they figured that you would only be using mic level output with a DSLR.

And, note that I would be using the F4 as a Recorder/Mixer because I needed more than 2 independent tracks. In which case the in camera tracks would be synch tracks, not primary tracks.
 
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OzGizmo said:
Really? ...... So please have a look through the manual / block diagram and let me know how to do a POST fader aux send?
Pre fader yes..... Post fader NO
Click to expand...

Even my analog mixer does not do a a post fader aux send. Actually my analog mixer is the reason I can not use the F4 as an input device. The Behringer is also my audio card and I have found no way to get two ASIO devices to work at the same time. Most likely a Windows problem.
 
The raise in the noise floor is at the point you raise the -10 signal up the 14db to get +4 out..... (it is getting closer to the output clipping level of the F4)
It WILL depend on the make / model of camera that you are using but there is no point in raising the entire signal up then ending it into a pad the same amount you have just raised the signal.
 
OzGizmo said:
Really? ...... So please have a look through the manual / block diagram and let me know how to do a POST fader aux send?
Pre fader yes..... Post fader NO
Click to expand...

You dont. You use the five HP amp sends, A- E. They allow separate mixes.
 
THis (multiple HP mixes) has a section in the manual. Since these are not out for people to actually test one for now has to depend on the manual which is downloadable.

So My reply is based on the manual not actual practice.
 
Have a look at the block diagram in the last few pages of the Zoom L-12 manual.... those H/Phone feeds / mixes are quite separate and pre-fader of the main mix......
 
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OzGizmo said:
The raise in the noise floor is at the point you raise the -10 signal up the 14db to get +4 out..... (it is getting closer to the output clipping level of the F4)
It WILL depend on the make / model of camera that you are using but there is no point in raising the entire signal up then ending it into a pad the same amount you have just raised the signal.
Click to expand...

Well, if you camera does not have +4 line in, it would not be a smart thing to do. And, you are comparing apples and oranges. +4 line is actually 12dbfs above -10db line because they use different scales. That is the confusing thing about deciBels there are a lot of different scales, that people think are the same thing. It is kind of like degrees F & degrees C, both use degrees of temperature but are entirely different scales, even the zeros are different.
 
OzGizmo said:
Have a look at the block diagram in the last few pages of the Zoom L-12 manual.... those H/Phone feeds / mixes are quite separate and pre-fader of the main mix......
Click to expand...

That would probably work if this was not a software driven device. Read pages 31 & 32 the headphone outs are either a mirror of the master out OR individual mixes.
 
jagraphics said:
That's why no one uses Fahrenheit any more
Click to expand...

Well nobody out side the US. Real Men use Kelvin!

OT fun fact C is based on 0= the point water freezes at sea level and 100 = the point that water boils at sea level.

F is based on 0= as cold as ice water and salt will go and 100 is the temperature of fresh milk from a healthy cow. Obviously this was a very dairy based system, milk & ice-cream.

K is based on counting up from the lowest temperature theoretically possible.
 
Noiz2 said:
Well nobody out side the US. Real Men use Kelvin!.
Click to expand...

And Real Men wear Kelvin Klein :-)

It is a shame when some of these things die out but in a global world it helps to all be using the same measurements. Though the UK is Metric (and some industries since the early 1950's) the roads signs and speed limits are still in miles!

BTW the Gregorian calendar is still not complete universal. Even there the US uses a date notation Month/day/ year that is different to the rest of the world. Everyone else uses day/month/year or year/month/day.
 
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