FS7: Zoom and/or Prime - Cam package growth

V

Vintegreo

Well-known member
I've been renting an FS7 package consistently for over a year and finally ready to take the plunge and purchase what I think of as the "core" package.

Over that time, I've rented just about everything you can throw on this camera. A Canon 17-120, Zeiss primes, still Canon lenses, the Fujinon 20-120, the ever so crummy 28-135 that was the original kit lens, etc.

Now that it's a more permanent decision, i'm in a quandary over which lens or lenses to get and am of course looking forward to trying to sort this out at NAB.

All that said, I'd love to know the compliment of lenses that those of you who are owner/operators own. In my ideal world, I'm realizing that I'd probably have a zoom for b-roll and primes for on the sticks interviews. But, my overall budget is about 25K give or take for FS7 MK II, tripod, shoulder rig accessories, batteries, some audio gear, etc. That budget gets eaten up in a hurry!

As for what I've considered lens-wise, I'm probably down to the Zeiss Lightweight Zoom, Zeiss Cp.2 primes, and the Fujinon 20-120. For what I'm doing I've ruled out the Canon 17-120 (too expensive), the new Sony kit lens (cheap build quality), the pair of Fujinons (18-55 and the 50-120 or whatever it is -- don't like where it breaks).

With what I have left in the lineup, the weight of the Zeiss Zoom is appealing because I know that with both the Canon 17-120 and the Fujinon 20-120 that it can be a front heavy beast without a well set up shoulder rig. BUT...in either case, I won't have the initial budget to get both primes and a zoom at the same time. Further, I'm thinking that it's likely that the Zeiss zoom would cut better with the Zeiss primes if I ever add any to the lineup.

Anyway...I've rambled on enough here. So...to the original question....for those of you with cam packages that you own, how have you phased in over time?

Thanks!

Tim
 
Vintegreo said:
I've been renting an FS7 package consistently for over a year and finally ready to take the plunge and purchase what I think of as the "core" package.

Over that time, I've rented just about everything you can throw on this camera. A Canon 17-120, Zeiss primes, still Canon lenses, the Fujinon 20-120, the ever so crummy 28-135 that was the original kit lens, etc.

Now that it's a more permanent decision, i'm in a quandary over which lens or lenses to get and am of course looking forward to trying to sort this out at NAB.

All that said, I'd love to know the compliment of lenses that those of you who are owner/operators own. In my ideal world, I'm realizing that I'd probably have a zoom for b-roll and primes for on the sticks interviews. But, my overall budget is about 25K give or take for FS7 MK II, tripod, shoulder rig accessories, batteries, some audio gear, etc. That budget gets eaten up in a hurry!

As for what I've considered lens-wise, I'm probably down to the Zeiss Lightweight Zoom, Zeiss Cp.2 primes, and the Fujinon 20-120. For what I'm doing I've ruled out the Canon 17-120 (too expensive), the new Sony kit lens (cheap build quality), the pair of Fujinons (18-55 and the 50-120 or whatever it is -- don't like where it breaks).

With what I have left in the lineup, the weight of the Zeiss Zoom is appealing because I know that with both the Canon 17-120 and the Fujinon 20-120 that it can be a front heavy beast without a well set up shoulder rig. BUT...in either case, I won't have the initial budget to get both primes and a zoom at the same time. Further, I'm thinking that it's likely that the Zeiss zoom would cut better with the Zeiss primes if I ever add any to the lineup.

Anyway...I've rambled on enough here. So...to the original question....for those of you with cam packages that you own, how have you phased in over time?

Thanks!

Tim
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Going by your post, it sounds like the Zeiss 21-100mm paired with a couple of CP.2 primes is the package you ultimately want.
As to what you can do now, with the budget you have...

$10k for Sony Fs7M2 + $10k for Zeiss 21-100mm is going to leave you around $4-5K for cards, batts, charger, shoulder rig, tripod, audio gear. That's tight. A good tripod can easily run you $5k.

___________

An alternative is to go with a pre-owned but warrantied Fs7M1. There is one available from B&H at the time of this writing for $6500.00. A savings of $3500 that can go towards your accessories and audio.


____________

If only that Fuji 20-120mm servo was an 18-120mm. I'd buy one tomorrow. Fuji should have fibbed and claimed it to be an 18-120mm. It would be flying off the shelves and most of us probably wouldn't have known that it wasn't an 18-120mm. :grin:
 
Figure your basic gear budget first including tripod and monitors and then figure how much you can spend on glass . You can do a lot with DSLR glass if the Zeiss zoom isn't in your budget and many of us including me roll that way. But a good tripod is critical as are good monitors.
 
Depending on your work you probably need to rent/buy and expensive zoom
That should be part of your business plan and you need clients that will pay for it.

I do think however that every fs7 owner should have some old manual glass

I bought a canon fd 50 1.8 the other day for $30 - laugh? Don't. this lens will do very pretty pictures and has a better focus ring than anything but a cine prime.

I'm baffled - or maybe not - that "the Internet" gets excited by a 50 that costs $1000.

Spend $1000 on manual old school glass - rent anything else your clients need
 
Lenses I own with my FS7:

Zeiss 28, Zeiss 50, Zeiss 85
Tokina 11-16, Tamron 24-70, Sigma 70-200

Breaks into -> Primes for interviews / controlled situations, zooms for events and b-roll.
From what I remember, the CP.2s are the same optics as the Zeiss distagon line, re-housed for same housing size, long focus throw etc etc. If the majority of your work is in large crews with a focus puller, the CP2s may be a good option, otherwise, save some $$ IMO.
 
Buy the tripod, head and some of the accessories used. You don't need a $5000 tripod. Even a Ronford Baker tripod that will outlive all of us does not cost $5000. Put your money into the glass and good batteries. Have a look at the Sigma Cine zooms. I wouldn't dismiss the new Fuji zooms that quickly. Both offer incredible value and performance for the money. I'd stay away from still glass, speed boosters etc. and go with real cine glass. Your AC will appreciate it.
 
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I'm leaning heavily toward getting the FS7 MKII new and as much of the rest of it as possible used. Maybe for the lenses that aren't new enough to get used (Fujinon or Zeiss 20-120) I'll luck out and find some b-stock. Maybe even for the MKII version of the camera. I really like the variable ND filter and the better mount.
 
I'd be asking myself how important an all-in-one zoom like the 21-100mm is to you? If lens changes aren't a no-go, I'd probably look into the the pair of e-mount Fujis (18-55mm and 50-135mm). They offer a fantastic focal range for just two very lightweight zooms.
 
Grug said:
I'd be asking myself how important an all-in-one zoom like the 21-100mm is to you? If lens changes aren't a no-go, I'd probably look into the the pair of e-mount Fujis (18-55mm and 50-135mm). They offer a fantastic focal range for just two very lightweight zooms.
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I'm having a hard time reconciling the speed of those lenses along with the fact that the focal length breaks at 50mm. It just seems like the wrong place for it to break to me.
 
On the other hand on the Zeiss zoom, I'd like to know if I'll be satisfied with the shallow DOF that I can get with the Zeiss when shooting the talking heads. I've kind of gotten enamored with the primes and what they can do that way. Anxious to see it and touch it next week!
 
I have the 18-55 which is great but for me the 50-135 is unappealing a 30-90 would be a much better match.

Vintegreo said:
I'm having a hard time reconciling the speed of those lenses along with the fact that the focal length breaks at 50mm. It just seems like the wrong place for it to break to me.
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Vintegreo said:
I'm leaning heavily toward getting the FS7 MKII new and as much of the rest of it as possible used. Maybe for the lenses that aren't new enough to get used (Fujinon or Zeiss 20-120) I'll luck out and find some b-stock. Maybe even for the MKII version of the camera. I really like the variable ND filter and the better mount.
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I was gonna reply to your initial post Sat night, but got sucked into Stranger Things...

Anyway, I'd actually get the glass new and camera used or b-stock. The camera is what's gonna depreciate and be "obsolete" faster than anything else you buy.

And get a quality tripod and head, even if it's used. There are countless threads on here about it. So many people wanna skimp on the tripod. Don't make the same mistake others have made.
 
I agree with run&gun by the zoom new, camera used and from the savings invest in the tripod especially if you are going for a longer heavier zoom.
 
Vintegreo said:
I won't have the initial budget to get both primes and a zoom at the same time.
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When you are in business you need the tools to do your business. Are you going to rock up on a shoot with only half the stuff you 'need'?

You have not described, and don't need to, why you need these tools. I believe you do.

Anyone with a profitable business will be charging for major kit investments and will have a cash flow plan that covers payment for said items.

If you have a track record and or future contracts you will be able to lease purchase all the kit you need to do your work.

If I were you I would create a clear strategy that works within your cashflow.

My personal strategy is
-ownership of FS7 and cheaper lens set (and great sticks, plenty of media and batts)
-a client who needs a cine zoom will be offered it and I will rent it for them and charge for that.

This strategy is somewhat lead by me neither having $20k for glass in the bank or feeling that rental to clients would outstrip lease purchase costs of same.

Other strategies can work of course. And one could argue that the camera is the item most likely to be superseded and therefore that should be rented in.
One wants to rent in items that depreciate most or are little used.
 
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The item that you will keep the longest is a true professional tripod system. A good one can be used with DSLRs to Alexa's- though it's pushing it at both ends. Camera support is just about the only area that hasn't had crazy changes these past two years.

Some think glass is safe to buy. There is so much new glass coming out at all price points. Like cameras, what's hot this year may be cold next year, when the next new manufacture gets announced/released.

Some say lighting is a safe buy. Nothing but turmoil if you are buying lights to rent. The Arri Skypanels are the current hot light- and at close to $6K a piece, a major investment- cause you want more than 1.

Forget about rentals. The last feature I shot we used two Sony F55, Cooke S4s, FF4s, Arri MBs, O'Connor 2575's, Sony OLED monitor etc etc and you know what the rental was? Under $5K for the show. That was for a 2 camera shoot. That's insane. The producer did her magic and the rental house owed her a favor, but right now there is tremendous supply of gear available. It's simple supply and demand. Talk to any Red Epic owner in a major market.

If you have clients that pay you good rentals- protect that relationship as aggressively as possible.

Your question leads me to believe you aspire to have better clients, higher paying gigs, and are hoping the gear will be a step in the right direction. It is- but that's a private financial question for yourself. For example, if you are shooting full time you KNOW what your clientele accepts, you KNOW the crew sizes you'll be working with in the next 12 months and you have a pretty good idea what your production income will be in the next 12 months.

Owning equipment will not magically change the formula- like it did back in 2008-2010, in particular with early Alexa owners and early Red owner/ops.

BTW I just met someone who bought an Alexa classic package for under $10K. With the RAW and HS license. He's gonna buy the o7Q+ or one of the Shoguns for ArriRAW. He offered to rent it out for $350/d

So I'm going to echo Sam.
1. Buy professional camera support. My choice was O'Connor with Ronford legs, your choice is entirely up to you. BTW I just bought a classic Ronford F3 fluid head- 100mm bowl. It's a small head but superbly made and it was $500 bucks. For B or C cams on low budget shoots. For myself, vastly superior to anything currently available at this price. But that's just me.
2. Buy a camera. FS7II is a pretty safe bet- covers a lot of territory as does the C300 Mk2. Unless clients demand certain cameras (some do) I think the safest camera to buy is the Alexa Mini- (but you know a new sensor is LONG overdue.) You can use a Mini on any production around the world and it will be desired and relevant. This year.
4. Batteries and Media. Have enough. Nothing scream amateur when you show up with not enough media or batteries. It is an investment, and expensive to rent btw.
3. Affordable glass. Whatever fits the budget and gives you the coverage you need. On low budget jobs old manual still glass (and some new stills glass) will work and give you a very nice image. Cinevise them for convenience. If your clients demand cine glass rent it- it's easy. Just have the glass you need for the budget shows and a line on decent rentals of pro glass.
4. Monitors. Client monitors. I think clients would prefer to have wireless monitors on set over a Fujinon zoom- assuming you are giving them a good image with whatever glass you bring. And I know old crappy still lenses can give you a fantastic image, especially if you are photographing faces as opposed to building and product shots. Monitors are also expensive to rent.
5. Data transfer. Fast reliable way to transfer data. Many clients will bring their own drives and use their laptops. Obviously, they are not hiring data wranglers. On a number of occasions I've given producers my media cause they couldn't transfer them on location for any number of reasons. They always Fedex them back, but it's a risky way of doing business, on my end. They always ask me to please not wipe the cards right away if at all possible. This is another reason you want a good supply of camera media on hand. You do need to keep your clients happy.

As you can see no matter what your budget, it can be quickly consumed by gear.

I call equipment depreciating expenses.

I do own gear, but I'm not in love with anything.

Having said that, collecting gear is a totally valid hobby. Just differentiate hobby and profession.

also don't believe 90% of the total crap you read on the internet, including my posts.
 
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