F55: Zeiss lens porn!

[Duke M.]

This kind of goes with the poll I posted earlier. The lenses came back from Duclos and I figured that before I decide which ones to sell and which to keep I better do some testing. (I would like a way to post full size BMP files but can't do it here. Anyone have suggestions on the best way?)

I'll put the pictures of the three sets in three successive posts first. At some point I'll put up the results that surprised me a little. If I can figure out a way to post BMP captures of the test shots I'll post that next. If nothing else some little 1:1 crops.

Set 1 - 16, 24, 32, 50, 85mm. These are a matched set of Zeiss Arriflex T2.2 standard speeds (except the 16mm which is T2.4). One interesting note is that at T3, they are all still faster than the Red zoom at T3. They are converted from Arriflex to PL mount. Duclos went ahead and added rings, uniform fronts, caps. The 16mm doesn't distort much. The 85mm can't focus close, definitely not macro as the closest is about 5' away.

Even though these were movie lenses to start with the Arriflex way of pulling focus didn't use gears, it uses a metal strip and the AC literally pulled the strip. Also, they come with detents (clicks) and it's internal so they can't be declicked easily.

 

[Duke M.]

Set 2 - Right now it's 37, 58, 80, 120 and 180mm. The 120mm isn't pictured because it's still getting geared. I called this my poor man's set because it's cheaper and uses Zeiss lenses from behind the iron curtain. (A couple of Zeiss factories were captured by the Russians and kept in production.) While a nice Zeiss PL lens with gears will often set you back $3k to $7k I'll probably sell this set for $5k when I'm done.

These were better than expected. They are actually photo lenses that I've adapted to PL mounts, added gears or in the process of adding gears.

Probably the biggest drawback to this set is the lack of something around 24mm, but I'll look until I find it. (most photo lenses can't be adapted to PL mounts)

These tend to be a little longer such as 37mm instead of the usual 32mm or 35mm, and 58mm instead of 50mm or 55mm. Still impressive images with long throws. Sturdy, all metal. The 80, 120 and 180mm are 'zebras' (black and white stripes) but still produce impressive images.

 

[Duke M.]

Set 3 - Okay, one of these isn't a Zeiss lens, it's a Red 18-50mm T3 zoom. It has the advantage of speed of framing. The rest of the lenses are Zeiss 80, 120 and 180mm T3 (F2.8) lenses. These are just fantastic Zeiss lenses. They are all multi-coated and this 80mm focuses much closer than the 85mm in Set 1. The 180 isn't pictured because it's still getting geared.

 

[Duke M.]

Now some results. These are 50mm comparisons. All in the same light, all at T3, all from the camera and tripod in the same place, locked down. All I did was change lenses, check the aperture and focus the lens with focus assist.

Of course the 50mm is a tiny wider than the 58mm as it should be, but otherwise I think the images are very close. The Red lens when set to 50mm on the markings was way off. Maybe 40mm.

These are half size images, because that's all I can upload here.

 

[starcentral]

Nice lenses Duke, and nice images too. on my monitor the RED has warmer look to it.

To post full size images you can maybe just use DropBox.com and put a link to each image here as a URL.

Cheers,

 

[Duke M.]

Here is a comparison of the 32mm Zeiss from Set 1, with the Red set a 32mm, both at T3. Again the Red markings don't seem accurate. The colors are pretty close though. When you look at the writing the Zeiss is obviously sharper.

 

[Lenilenapi]

Duke , do these lenses have longer focus throws than a modern ZF set? What are the f stops?

 

[Duke M.]

Here's a comparison of the 85mm Arriflex Zeiss in set 1 with the 80mm multi-coated photography Zeiss in Set 3. Both at T3. I did the 80mm single coated zebra lens in Set 2, but I missed focus.

 

[Duke M.]

Duke , do these lenses have longer focus throws than a modern ZF set? What are the f stops?

Which set and which lens? In general all of my lenses have 300-320 degrees of throw. I have no idea how much a ZF has.

The multi-coated in Set 3 all have about 320 degrees of throw.

For the 58mm Helios in Set 2, a Zeiss copy made on Zeiss machines by Zeiss techs (I also have the 58mm Zeiss but it's not shown) they are both about 300 degrees. The Zebras in set 2 are also about 300 degrees.

The Arriflex in Set 1 are about 160 degrees.

 

[Duke M.]

Nice lenses Duke, and nice images too. on my monitor the RED has warmer look to it.

Zeiss are known to be a little bluer. A skylight 1A filter usually enough correction, but if not a skylight 1B will do it.

 

[Duke M.]

What are the f stops?

Set 1 is F2 throughout, but T2.2 for all but the 16mm which is T2.4. They all go through T16.

The 80, 120 and 180 in both Sets 2 and 3 are F2.8 (T3) through out. The 180s go to F32 with a huge front element. The 80s and 120s go to F22.

The rest I'd have to check individually.

 

[Duke M.]

On the other hand, if you were asking what was the F stop in each picture, its whatever is written on the slate in that picture.

 

[Lenilenapi]

Didn't know you could get Photo Zeiss lenses that had focus throws that long. They sound much longer than ZFG's . i would be interested in that set if you decide to sell. 24 would be a nice addition. Do the colors match reasonably well in the first set?

 

[Nate Weaver]

Even though these were movie lenses to start with the Arriflex way of pulling focus didn't use gears, it uses a metal strip and the AC literally pulled the strip. Also, they come with detents (clicks) and it's internal so they can't be declicked easily.

I just can't help myself chiming in just cuz the very first Arri I ever got my hands on as a 2nd assistant (a Arri 35BL2, a 1975 camera, and me, learning it in 1991) had this system. It wasn't quite strips to move the focus barrel.

These lenses were "B-mount", and designed to go in a 35BLII lens blimp. Each lens had one piece of chrome metal with two mickey mouse ears, than engaged with a mating rubber block with slots cut out on the inside of the lens blimp. Kind of like a lens in an underwater housing.

THEN, the AC had a stick (like a zoom stick) on the outside of the lens blimp. The outer ring of the blimp rotated, which then turned the rubber blocks on the inside of the lens blimp, which engaged the lens ears. That's how you pulled focus.

Since the lens was inside the blimp, you couldn't see the marks. That's where the "strip" came in. Each lens had a matching steel strip about 12 inches long and about 1/4" wide that had all that len focus marks. You'd feed the strip into the lens blimp slot which would then display the marks for the lens. Lens changes were much more time consuming, because you had to pull the (small) mattebox on the front of the lens blimp (that was specifically made for that blimp, then pull the lens, pull the strip, replace the lens, replace the strip, and then put it all back together.

 

[Duke M.]

Didn't know you could get Photo Zeiss lenses that had focus throws that long. They sound much longer than ZFG's . i would be interested in that set if you decide to sell. 24 would be a nice addition. Do the colors match reasonably well in the first set?

According to Matt Duclos "The ZF.2s vary from lens to lens ranging from a manageable 90° to a pleasing 275° on some focal lengths."

 

[Duke M.]

I just can't help myself chiming in just cuz the very first Arri I ever got my hands on as a 2nd assistant (a 1975 camera, and me, learning it in 1991) had this system. It wasn't quite strips to move the focus barrel.

+1, quite right. The strip doesn't move the focus ring directly, but does move it indirectly. And anyone who's only run digital cameras has no idea how noisy a film camera is or what a blimp is. These blimps don't float i n the air it's a very closely fit enclosure to keep the sound in. The start out padded too, but that usually wears out over time. I like your analogy to an undewater rig.

The BL rigs, BL1, BL2, BL3, BL4... were the only way to do serioius hand held back in the day, unless it was MOS (with out sound).

The BL lenses use the same formula as the better known Zeiss lenses like Distigon, Planar, Biometer, etc so now you see people trying to sell the old lenses, unmodified for $10-$12k. Ridiculous. Modified, maybe, but not unmodified. I do have a plastic baggie of little 'micky mouse ears'.

 

[Lenilenapi]

I too am of a certain age ad remember the BL Blimp. What a Pain in the butt to be honest. So happy when newer cameras came along. Took great pictures though.

 

[Duke M.]

Here is an interesting shot. Using the 16mm from Set 1 which is much wider. The camera is tilted down which makes the walls angle out. But notice that the walls are still straight. They don't bend from barrel distortion.



Then, the crop of the slate blown up 400%. Everything looks clear and crisp just as though it were shot from a longer lens. Pretty impressive that a 16mm will hold up that well at T3. The lens goes to T2.4.

 

[Douglas Villalba]

that blow up is still usable. amazing.

 

[Duke M.]

Here's another interesting 400% blow up of a 1:1 crop. This from the 180mm lens in Set 2. This is wide open on this lens at T3 from about 8' away.

Again the full image is at half size because its the only way it will fit here.



And the crop