Z-Finder makes it harder - am I nuts?

jagstang said:
You might be crazy but your not alone :)

I just got one and posted a review - I had the same initial thoughts about it.

http://www.pauljoy.com/gear/zacuto-z-finder-v2/

Be interested to know if you think the view simulation matches what you see?
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I had the same thoughts you did. Your images do a pretty good job of showing the issue with the ginormous pixels. Basically I found that if I couldn't focus with the LCD screen then I couldn't focus with the Z-Finder. All it does is make it BIGGER, not more detailed. You can already see all the pixels with the bare LCD, so the Z-Finder just makes it harder by blowing the thing up so big. I'd love to see a LCDVF and see if it's easier on the eyes.
 
jagstang said:
You might be crazy but your not alone :)

I just got one and posted a review - I had the same initial thoughts about it.

http://www.pauljoy.com/gear/zacuto-z-finder-v2/

Be interested to know if you think the view simulation matches what you see?
Click to expand...

Thanks fot the review. In your review you state:


The biggest problem for me is that it magnifies the LCD on my 5DmkII so much that the resulting image is so low in resolution it makes focusing harder than it is without it fitted. The magnification is so high that every pixel and the gap around it is clearly visible.

I totally believe your experience. What I can't understand is why you and the OP of this thread are the only people to have stated this opinion after months of the Z Finder being in the market place. Looking at your example in your review of what you see through the Z finder is totally unacceptable. I have no idea why more people haven't mentioned this! It looks like my 4X Mamiya loupe when I've tried to use it on the 5DII, and it's total sh*t to judge anything by.

I would rather use the 10X magnification of the 5DII than suffer trying to judge focus with that. I have a Small HD external monitor and that is excellent to judge focus by, but I want another option for when that isn't practical.

I'm hoping the 2X of the LCDVF that I've ordered works. I'm wondering if the Hoodman in conjunction with the magnification feature of the 5DII may not be the best option of all.

I'm not really sure why I'm so pissed off by this, but I am! :-)
 
f64manray said:
I have no idea why more people haven't mentioned this! It looks like my 4X Mamiya loupe when I've tried to use it on the 5DII, and it's total sh*t to judge anything by.
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Actually I've read a few reviews today where people felt the magnification was a little strong for the 5D2. In reality the Z-Finder is doing it's job perfectly, if the LCD were higher resolution it would work a treat. The problem is that it's not so I can't help feeling that a Loupe with lower magnification would be better, at least in the case of the 5D2.

It's really not sh*t though, if you can get used to focusing using the pixelated image it's perfectly usable. I just prefer to not see the image pixelated.
 
no matter what eyepiece magnifier you use you will realize that the resolution on the LCD is not great enough to be notably sharp. the sooner you accept that the better it will be for you to adapt and move forward.

with that said the Hoodloupe 1-1 ratio vs the Zfinder 3x leaves you in exactly the same the same place....an image that isnt really as sharp as you want it to be.

i see it as....you have to ****LEARN**** how to *feel* focus with *what you have* looking thru any of the eyepieces. its not perfect at anytime and no one magnifier will make it perfect. if you cant accept that then you are in denial and will never adapt.

for me when i use the Zfinder vs the Hoodloupe i can see and focus on the *smaller* things in the frame much better than when using the lesser magnification. still though its all technically lacking in resolution. but still using the resolution available i can easily see when its *in or out*. i did notice the pixel thing when i first got it and it and was a little un-nerved by it but got over it after a few minutes becuase i found it to be way better than the 1-1 ration of the Hoodloupe. but then that is me and for some they may do better with the lesser magnification. it really just a serious of trade offs i believe.

i think you havent heard people complain about this because they have accepted that the LCD's are not very sharp to start with and moved on with the best bet available since there are no other choices...at least... until the LCD's are made with twice the current resolution. that wont happen anytime soon though.

maybe an external 7" HDMI monitor would be better suited for a few of you. larger to deal with but would be sharper and very nice to look at but just cant be as easily mobile.

david
www.davidprobst.com
 
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david_p said:
for me when i use the Zfinder vs the Hoodloupe i can see and focus on the *smaller* things in the frame much better than when using the lesser magnification.
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If your focusing during a shot then I agree, it is possible to pick out a bit more detail by pushing / pulling focus using the Z-Finder than without it at all, but my point was that maybe slightly less magnification would be a better middle ground. What I found was that its difficult to look through the Z-Finder and judge if a shot was is focus without pushing / pulling around the focal point once or twice. That might be something that you have to learn, and in fact I think I'm already starting to somewhat.

Everyone has there own preferences though.
 
jagstang said:
If your focusing during a shot then I agree, it is possible to pick out a bit more detail by pushing / pulling focus using the Z-Finder than without it at all, but my point was that maybe slightly less magnification would be a better middle ground. What I found was that its difficult to look through the Z-Finder and judge if a shot was is focus without pushing / pulling around the focal point once or twice. That might be something that you have to learn, and in fact I think I'm already starting to somewhat.

Everyone has there own preferences though.
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ive havent tried the 2x so i cant say but i would guess that the LCDVF might be just as effective as the Zfinder even though lesser x. it wasnt available when i got the Zfinder but i wouldnt have gone that way anyway since there is no diopter. besides that though it looks to be a very competent unit.

the lack of resolution is a reality on these LCD's. i feel it on the Hoodloupe and Zfinder. i still get better focus on the Zfiinder and i like the close up vibe where everything is big and the i dont even really notice the pixel thing after the first bit of working with it.

the good thing is that there are more choices than 6 months ago and soon will be more. maybe LCDVF will eventually come out with a model that has a diopter. it would give the Zfinder a good run for its money.

david
www.davidprobst.com
 
For me Z-finder is a must, can not shoot without it, some of you don't make sense, you said all it does is magnify and not make the picture any sharper, well if the edge of an object is bigger, it is easier to see when it is at the sharperst than a smaller picture, can't you see that, do you know why they have a 5x and 10x magnify button on the camera to help you focus, any other video camera also have magnify button to help focus because when a object is larger it is easier to see the edge or contrast is at the max or not, I think some of you need to learn how to focus before start making reviews.
 
z finder or any other finder over the price of $20 would be hte last thing i would ever buy.

So many other important pieces you need first.

Good tripod, rig, steadycam, slider, etc... etc...

Do your research before you buy.
 
jonE5 said:
z finder or any other finder over the price of $20 would be hte last thing i would ever buy.

So many other important pieces you need first.

Good tripod, rig, steadycam, slider, etc... etc...

Do your research before you buy.
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what good is all of that other gear if you cant get your shots in focus?

interesting! :grin:

david
www.davidprobst.com
 
lol, most of these DSLR have a 3" screen or bigger.

I dunno, i use a 50mm 1.8 all the time, and have no issues focusing. Id say maybe 1 or 2% of shots might come out SLIGHTLY out of focus, if even that. And im talking pulling focus by hand all day. I was at a wedding over the weekend, and took some video all hand held with my d90, and of course used the 1.8 at full wide, so DOF was very small. As i panned around the room, i had to change focus by hand at each persons face. I checked the footage on my 50" panny and it looked fine (other than my shaky hands, lol)

Again, didnt mean to say it wasnt important or useful, just meant to say that there are MANY other pieces of equipment you should have in your bag first.
 
david_p said:
what good is all of that other gear if you cant get your shots in focus?

interesting! :grin:

david
www.davidprobst.com
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My point is that I have no trouble keeping it in focus without the $400 Zacuto thing on there and actually find it harder with it on. I'm sure we all have our own preferences, but I'll almost certainly be going for a LCDVF.
 
I just got the lcdfv and works great. when i use it run and gun ,i use the eye as a contact point but fogs up right away. I was thinking it would be great to put a little 1/2 inch doughnut pad on the eye piece . i will be trying some anti fog but need to get some distance eyeball and glass.
 
Jester2138 said:
My point is that I have no trouble keeping it in focus without the $400 Zacuto thing on there and actually find it harder with it on. I'm sure we all have our own preferences, but I'll almost certainly be going for a LCDVF.
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No knocks against the Z-Finder as it looks like a great piece of equipment, but, I agree.

If the 7D's screen was articulating I would have little-to-zero need for an extra monitor.

As it stands, a 150.00 SD LCD on Ebay will do just fine.
 
I got both the Z-finder and the LCDVF.
If you don't have glasses go with the LCDVF, there in absolutely NO justification buying the Z-finder now that the LCDVF is out.

Spinning the wheel in the Z-finder which supposed to be the diopter does very little (unlike in a normal or pro video camera) so everything stays in focus all the time. The bigger problem is the thread. When turning the diopter the thread is out of the Z-finder body exposed for dust or send.

And like others wrote, the LCD on the 7d is low res and any magnifier out there is magnifying its limitation...


Thanks.

Johnnie
 
PSA1 said:
For me Z-finder is a must, can not shoot without it, some of you don't make sense, you said all it does is magnify and not make the picture any sharper, well if the edge of an object is bigger, it is easier to see when it is at the sharperst than a smaller picture, can't you see that, do you know why they have a 5x and 10x magnify button on the camera to help you focus, any other video camera also have magnify button to help focus because when a object is larger it is easier to see the edge or contrast is at the max or not, I think some of you need to learn how to focus before start making reviews.
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I don't think your really grasping what were talking about here. Using a cameras built in expanded focus is very different to magnifying the LCD with a viewer.

By using the 5x / 10x button on the back of the camera the resulting image is still displayed using the LCD's maximum pixel density, and is extremely helpful for focusing. Enlarging the LCD display with a magnifying viewer though only makes the screen look bigger, it does make the object look bigger but the information visible remains the same - just bigger. Once the individual pixels become visible I think it starts to then become harder to focus.

After a certain point It's like standing with your face right up to a 50" plasma TV, the pixels are bigger but it doesn't make it any easier to see the details.
 
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Nice Discussion!

Nice Discussion!

I have been reading this thread and thought it was about time I chime in. At Zacuto, we prefer the 3x magnification (critical focus is difficult with DSLR's) and many of our customers prefer the 3x magnification as well. However, some people are interested in a 2.5x magnification so we have decided to manufacture a 2.5x optic. By the end of March, customers will have the choice to purchase a z-finder with a 2.5x magnification or a 3x magnification. There will be an upgrade path for customers who own the 3x magnification z-finder and would rather have a 2.5x magnification. This is a personal preference but Zacuto is a company that responds quickly to customers requests. If your going to be at NAB, stop by our booth and try both out for yourself!
 
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