Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Scotty,

Blind loyalty? What about basic loyalty. Im rambling??? come on.. your posts do as well.

I didnt say liberals are scum. I said liberals who betray their country are. And I really said " Socialists" isnt that the key issue?

The key problem in America today are Socialists that think they have a better way. They want change. Got to have it got to make more laws, got to change the world. Their vehicle is government. They want to assimilate the rest of the world to their socialist vision.

They are our teachers, our politicians and at times even our presidents. They call our Representative Republic a Democracy they say it over and over again on the Box Democracy, Democracy, Democracy.

My country is not a Democracy it is a Representative Republic. A Democracy is basically socialism. And my point being: The socialist democratic party will do whatever it takes to win the white house, even if it means losing this war where in we put our troops into harms way.

The administration had done a good job about positive publicity for this war and an asshole comes along and single handedly lost this war for us by dissimenating this information.

I did not agree with going to Iraq. To my freinds and family I was a critic. Now that we are there I do not protest the war when folks are dieing. Now that we are there we are there and we must support 100% even if it means CONSCIOUSLY turning a "blind" eye to basic interogation not torture nothing more nothing less.

Im not Stupid Scotty.. your implying such..
So on a lighter note:
the KC Royals arent doing so well this year...
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=Offtopic;num=1083887760;start=30#37 date=05/13/04 at 23:18:00]If I know KAI (virtually anyway) I assure you his use of the word NUKE is not literally "TURN IRAQ INTO A WATERPARK".

But I think the U.S. should not be playing games with these insurgents, terrorists, islamic radicals or bathe (sp) regime.  I think they should go Shock and Awe all over again until there is nothing left.
[/quote]

Absolutely John. You know what I meant. Those nutbags need to be dealt with like they deserve to be dealt with. Hard and quick. It's not like they're holding them for no reason. They're a threat. They have information we need to stop the terrorists. We could always put them up in a posh hotel and treat them like royalty like the liberals would like, thus guaranteeing them their "human rights"... blah.

Scotty- In my comment on "nuking them". I wasn't referring to "push the button on Hiroshima part deux". The majority of Iraq's citizens are forever grateful to the US. I've seen this first hand. They are good, honest people. Wanting and deserving the freedoms that we've given them. It's the terrorist and rebel punks that need to be dealt with swiftly and permenantly. Eliminate them. Kill them. Wipe them from the face of the earth. No mercy for they have none for us. It makes me mad when the leftist liberal know-nots throw a kink in the lives of the real citizens over there and even over here by causing a stink over something as stupid as an interrogation tactic just for political gain (and just so they can undermine our leader in order to try to put their own monkey in office). It's pathetic and treasonous.

Fred- You are my hero. :)
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

I didn't mean to offend with the rambling comment. You said this at the end of a post

"make sense?? Im rambling....."

I ramble too.

"Blind loyalty? What about basic loyalty.

I agree in basic loyalty. That's a good thing, but if you see your
country doing wrong, then you have to speak up.

Here's an analogy; You and brothers and sisters live in a abusive
household under a brutal father. A cop buddy and his friend next door sees this and one day comes over and after a nasty fight that busts up a lot of the house, the cops and friend kicks dad out of the house. Everything thing's fine until the cop won't go away. He hangs out for a year and becomes bossey. Then he starts brutalizing the kids in the house trying to get info on who painted some nasty words on his car and threw an egg at him. Finally his friend reports his cop buddy to the authorities. Is the friend a bad guy?


"The key problem in America today are Socialists that think they have a better way. They want change. Got to have it got to make more laws, got to change the world. Their vehicle is government. They want to assimilate the rest of the world to their socialist vision."

But aren't doing the same thing with democracy? We're imposing our ideology on Iraq. I'm not saying socialism is great, but there are a few things about it I like. Helping those worse off than you with better education and health care. We're the richest country in the world and our education system is hurting and health care costs are out on control. We can do better and maybe that's the answer. I don't know. It's something I think about some days and like and some days I don't.


"The socialist democratic party will do whatever it takes to win the white house, even if it means losing this war where in we put our troops into harms way."

I don't think that's true. There may be some small elements that are extreme, but I don't think that as a whole. We had 8 years of Clinton and the country didn't start teaching Marism in the public schools.

Under Reagan, Bush #1 & #2 we didn't start killing the poor for sport.

The voting public likes moderates. Anybody who pushes the boundaries gets pushed out. I don't think you need to paint the democratic party as an extreme socialist party.

"The administration had done a good job about positive publicity for this war and an asshole comes along and single handedly lost this war for us by dissimenating this information."

If the abuse didn't happen, then there'd be no pictures. It's a simple as that. Don't blame the messenger.
I will say this, the media is always going to push bad news. I don't care who's in charge. I know there's good news in Iraq with troops helping the people of Iraq. I've seen the stories, but not enough of them.

"I did not agree with going to Iraq. To my freinds and family I was a critic. Now that we are there I do not protest the war when folks are dieing. Now that we are there we are there and we must support 100% even if it means CONSCIOUSLY turning a "blind" eye to basic interogation not torture nothing more nothing less."

I think that's wrong. Wrong acts just breed more wrong acts. If I were president, I would find the most friendly city in Iraq and pour money into it, rebuilding it and showing if off as the good that America can do. I say kill em' with kindness.

"Im not Stupid Scotty.. your implying such..."

I'm not saying your stupid. I just don't agree with some of your
analysis of current events. We're having a dialogue and you're trying to sell me your point of view and I'm selling mine.

Take care and keep fighting the good fight. I'm prepping for short this weekend.

Scott
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Kai,

"It's not like they're holding them for no reason. They're a threat. They have information we need to stop the terrorists."

300 of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib were released today and 450 more will be released tomorrow or the next day. The commander of the prison plans to get the population down to 1500 from 4000, so it may appear that 2500 of these folks are being held for no reason. Unless the US military likes releasing terrorist which I doubt.

"Scotty- In my comment on "nuking them". I wasn't referring to "push the button on Hiroshima part deux". The majority of Iraq's citizens are forever grateful to the US."

Ok, got your point there.


"It makes me mad when the leftist liberal know-nots throw a kink in the lives of the real citizens over there and even over here by causing a stink over something as stupid as an interrogation tactic just for political gain (and just so they can undermine our leader in order to try to put their own monkey in office). It's pathetic and treasonous."

It's not treason to disagree with torture. Some of what was going over there was standard operation for interrogation, but some of it went way over the line. Sodomizing, breaking bones and killing detainees is way over the line.
I agree that some people are using this for political gain. Some on the far left would like compare the US to Nazi guards in concentrartion camps. I think that is way over the line. What happened over there was an aberation and those who did the acts should be punished, but the US isn't Nazi Germany.

It may sound like I do not support the troops, but that isn't true. I taught some high school media classes a few years back and I would have to guess that some of those students may well be serving in Iraq. I wouldn't want to see them come back injured or in a body bag. I was for invading Afganistan, but I was not for going into Iraq. It was a dumb move. At first I was for it with the reports on WMD's and links to 9/11, but the more I learned about these, the more I started to think it was a bad idea. The first inkling was when the report on Saddam trying to buy "yellow cake" uranium from Nigeris turned out to be false. In fact, when they brought that to the public, they already had 6 month old evidence to say it wasn't true.
(On a side note: The guy who exposed this screw up was an ambassador and his wife was acting as spy looking for WMDs. After this, somebody in Bush's administration outted her as a spy to Bob Novak who printed it right up. This could have gotten her killed. Now that's treason.)
Before the war, George Tenet, dir. of the FBI, gave Bush a report on WMDs and W. didn't buy it, saying "Is that all you got? Joe Public isn't going to buy that." Tenet said it was a slam dunk. This is from Bob Woodward's book, which before you start slamming him as a lefty journalist, which is on Bush's site as recommended reading. So Bush didn't believe in WMDs, but he sold the war on it anyway.
Later, Bush even came out and said that there was no link between Saddam and 9/11.
So you can see where I might feel used and lied to and very unhappy with my president. I no longer can trust a guy who lies to get us into a war.

Scott
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

The Coalition liberated the people of IRAQ from an Oppressive regime. The mistake made the first time was leaving prematurely and NOT finishing the job. If the Coalition forces left today; there would be no government and there would still be bathe (sp?) supporters, insurgents, rebels, warlords, etc. and those people would come into power over the people of IRAQ.

It is important the job is done right and that means cleaning up the trash. No one is ever happy. There was flak the first time leaving too soon and there is flak this time for staying to long.

The liberals cry "foul!" and want the forces out of there. And then what? What happens then? Do you think the people of IRAQ are going to be able to form a peaceful government with the "bad guys" running around with guns? The army of IRAq won't even fight because they are afraid.

Saddam was a bad person and violated all of the restrictions set on him after the first Gulf war and basically taunted and mocked the United States. Now, it is important the job gets done right. We are not imposing DEMOCRACY. We are imposing FREEDOM, something the people of IRAQ have not known.

IRAQ will be all the better after we leave and are grateful. Dont buy into the liberal media and political agendas of the anti-Bush league. That is too easy. That is what the flock does. Think about it.

Saddam had it coming. And he got it.
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

John,

I don't think we should pull out from Iraq. You're absolutely right in saying that it would create a bigger mess than we found. I think we need a multi-laterial force in there with a lot more countries around the world contributing men and equipment.

Kerry is proposing it and the Bush admin. has floated the idea of it. Some folks don't like the U.N., but a lot of the world doesn't like us right now so we just have to learn to work together. It's smart politically and because it will save our troops lives. By going in basically unilaterially, we have alienated much of the world, so it will be tough. This is a reason I think we need Bush gone. With him out of the White House, we will most likely be able to rebuild our reputation amoung the international community.

It's a world economy now, just as it is a world community. There are days where I dream of the US shutting it's boarders and going into isolationism, but that's not going to happen and in the long run is a dumb, simplistic answer which will only lead to stagnation in the US. Plus, like it or not, we're the world's policeman.

"IRAQ will be all the better after we leave and are grateful. Dont buy into the liberal media and political agendas of the anti-Bush league. That is too easy. That is what the flock does. Think about it."

I do think about it. Maybe too much and I don't get enough work done. In some ways you're right about the flock. It can be influenced by the media. Look at the current campaign ads. Bush calls Kerrry weak on defense. Kerry says that Bush said outsourcing is good for the economy. Both statements aren't true. (Go see my post under Beheading Nick Berg thread.) They are misleading half-truths that don't paint the real picture. The US public needs to get its' collecting head out of its' a** and stop using :30 second commerical as a basis for voting. Get informed by various sources. We spend too much time memorzing sports stats and watching sitcoms.

"Saddam had it coming. And he got it."

He's probably going to get a lot less than he deserves. I definitely do not think he should get the death penalty. That would be way too easy. Rotting in a cell for the rest of his life is much better.

Scott
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

[quote author=Scott_Spears link=board=Offtopic;num=1083887760;start=45#45 date=05/15/04 at 08:50:06]

He's probably going to get a lot less than he deserves.  I definitely do not think he should get the death penalty.   That would be way too easy.  Rotting in a cell for the rest of his life is much better.
[/quote]

I completely agree.
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

I wish it was a Unilateral coalition.  Unfortunately that angle was tried but Germany and France (Two key countries) ixnayed that idea; purely on their own financial interests.  That's no matter as who really cares what Germany and France think?  Germany's track record over the modern era is dispicable to say the least and France is more concerned with a United Europe (Gee, I wonder why?).  This is not a rip on the people of the those countries but from my perspective it's like the little dog barking at you.

We had to go in.  It wasn't thier planes being shot at over a hundred times over 10 years.

I think the U.N was a good idea.  Was.  It's time is past.  Bush is not a leader I follow and nor is Kerry.  In fact, I'd like to see an independent in office but that will not happen for a long time as long as there are contributions from the goverment to the parties.

I agree, I would like to see the US try and be more self sufficient; economywise as well as immigration issues (The Melting Pot is another great idea whose time has come and gone).

Peronsonally, I want the troops out of IRAQ.  But there they are.  I support our troops.  NOT Bush, not Kerry and surely won't subscribe to what Germany, France or anyone else in the U.N. think.

People are very jealous over the United States; The World Power in Economy and Military among others.  Sure, China and North Korea are admirable foes militarily but as far as thier governments are concerned, really, how can we take anything serious from them?

But hey!  There's always Cuba!

And to address the behaivor of the troops involved in the 'prison scandal'. They should have ****ing know better. They will be punished accordingly. No one really knows (sans the goverment) who those being mistreated were. Were they innocent commonfolk swept up in the fury? or are they insurgents who would stop at nothing to hurt Americans? The fact is WE DO NOT KNOW THIS other that speculation. If they are the latter I say "Oh ****ing well. They're lucky that's all they got."
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1083887760;start=0#3 date=05/09/04 at 10:13:41]Yes.  We screwed up big time.  I, too, am saddened by it, because it's not what we're about as a nation.
[/quote]

Not what we're about as a nation? Have you paid attention to the last 230 years?
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

[quote author=ExFilms link=board=Offtopic;num=1083887760;start=45#48 date=05/16/04 at 03:01:53]

Not what we're about as a nation?  Have you paid attention to the last 230 years?

[/quote]

Before I answer, what is it that you think I was referring to there?
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=Offtopic;num=1083887760;start=45#47 date=05/15/04 at 09:25:33]I agree, I would like to see the US try and be more self sufficient; economywise as well as immigration issues (The Melting Pot is another great idea whose time has come and gone).[/quote]

Exactly. It's not a melting pot anymore... it's a cesspool.
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

We do promote democracy world wide.. Why is that?? We are a Representative Republic?? does anyone know?? I think I know but I dont have the time to explain it here.. Anyone??
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Kai,

"Exactly. It's not a melting pot anymore... it's a cesspool."

The grumbling against immigration has been going on for close to 200 years. One government official complained that because of the different languages being spoken in congress that we might need interuptors. That man was Ben Franlkin and he was commenting on German immigrants, now I don't see a lot of people running around speaking German. Yes there are problems with illegal immigration, but over all this country is great because are ability to mix it up, so blaming our country's problems on it is a weak arguement.

Scott
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

So, Ben Franklin thought we should have someone 'interupt' the German immigrants?

Yes, I'm sure you meant to say "interpreters".

At least your "D" key is working... (sick Cheney, you once typed...)  ;)
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Sorry for the spelling errors. I was rushing because I had to head out right after that post.

Scott
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

I wouldnt blame our countries problems on immigration exclusively. its not that cut and dried. is immigration a problem? yes it is and its time to rethink that whole idea. there are also a hundred other issues that contribute to this countries problems however.
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Michael Savage my favorite radio commentator likened it to the Moores when they invaded Europe.. lol ... Hes right on man!
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

The main problem is the one world socialist vision. Yes there are many problems we face as a nation but one could argue that these issues are directly related to this one world globalist socialist outlook that the movers and shakers have made their agenda.. Imagine being Coca Cola and being able to sell a coke each day to all the chinamen.. A big Coca Cola figurehead laid it out to me like that one night on a limo ride when the discussion arose..
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

Fred, Fred....Fred,

So you listen to and like Michael Savage. Boy-o-boy.

Let me tell a little story. I was cleaning out my father's basement and all I had was a little radio to listen to and the only radio station I could get was a talk radio. I started listening to this man rant on and on about various subjects. Not politics so I could tell if he was a rightie or a leftie. For 20 min. he bitched about standing in line at the grocery, about the people in front of him writing a check for like $ 3 (I was ok with this to an extent) and the chit-chat about from the cashier. It went on and on and I thought to myself, who is the unhappy, whiney, bitchie man. Well, that was my introduction to Michael Savage.

Here are some quote from the angry man, Michael Savage: "I commend" prisoner abuse; "we need more"

"Instead of putting joysticks, I would have liked to have seen dynamite put in their orifices."

"And I think there should be no mercy shown to these sub-humans. I believe that a thousand of them should be killed tomorrow. I think a thousand of them held in the Iraqi prison should be given 24 hour -- a trial and executed. I think they need to be shown that we are not going to roll over to them. It won't happen. It won't happen because of the CBS Communists. It won't happen because of the CNN traitors. I won't happen because of the MSNBC empty heads. And we the people are the ones who are going to suffer today."

Savage hosted a short-lived televised version of his show for MSNBC, also called The Savage Nation, before being fired by the cable channel for referring on the air to a caller as a "sodomite" and saying that the caller should "get AIDS and die."

I'm sorry, but this guy is one sad and angry man. He make Rush look like a teddy bear.

Scott
 
Re: Yugoslavia or Somalia???.

I like him :) He's not afraid to speak his mind (a very right leaning mind, yes), but I agree with many of his points (not all, some are pretty extreme ie the aids comment, etc). He's fed up with the current filth and joke America has turned into at the hand of liberals.
 
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