Youtube goes 4K and announces 5 million in grants to partners

I do believe Barry shot a chart somewhere and on the chart the GH1 got a little more resolution than the 7D with a lot less aliasing and moire. What was it around 650 actual chart lines? This sort of a battle has raged over and over again throughout history of cameras... a lot of people.. including myself, were upset at the low resolution chips of the hvx200 when it came out.. cause it was doing weird stuff to make up the resolution... green pixel shift.. ect... then the DVCPRO format was only actually 960x720 pixels and doing weird scaling... still the images looked pretty good.. yet somewhat too soft if you were going to blow up to film for a release.. The hpx170 and 200a seemed to have a little more apparent resolution, but they still never shot a real 1920 x 1080 raster image.. so many people sang the high praises of the Sony EX1 and EX3 when it came out as being the first real prosumer HD camera that shot full raster HD, but it has it's own issues too. Every camera does....and everyone will kind of align their soul with what they bought of course.... I was going MAD going back and forth between the GH1 & the 7D.. silly insane mad.

I think the GH1 does shoot and store a 1920 x 1080 raster image, but it only physically resolves around 650 lines of TRUE resolution and then 'makes up' the rest which SOUNDS horrible technically on paper but it LOOKS pretty damn good in actual pictures - if not in fact amazing for the price it costs. The GH1 many times LOOKS better than some PRO cameras costing many thousands of dollars more that technically resolve more lines of resolution but lack a the ability to change to so many lenses or the magical bigger chip closer to actual 35mm size look that everyone is searching for - or what is referred to as the Panasonic 'mojo'. but they have other pro features that people in the field need.

On paper - technically, the EX1 is a better camera, but visually, it's a taster's choice... also.. at the time I couldn't really afford nor did I want to spend $6500.00 on the EX1, then another $4000 for a letus ultimate than another couple grand for the lenses and mounts. To get that film like mojo on the EX1 or EX3 you kind of HAVE to do that... it is just a sharp tv video camera out of the box it doesn't look very filmic with it's stock lens and almost everyone using it for pro narrative work is using it with lens adapters.

The GH1 alone costs less than HALF the price of a good adapter WITH the KIT lens.

I think my shots with the GH1 blow away what I was able to shoot with a HPX200a and an adapter as far as detail, sharpness, resolution and just overall 'the look', and I find it can be very competitive with what can be achieved on an ex1 / ex3 with that expensive $10,000+ combo. But obviously there are real world trade offs that you learn to work around. It took me a good while to get really great shots on the GH1 (oh and it took the ptool hack from tester13 too) but I am blown away by it now. The value is incredible of quality of picture to $ ratio.. if ya really want to get geeky with something that means something and translates into your production in a very real way.

I projected some of my GH1.3 footage directly from the camera onto a huge screen with a 10,000 lumens dlp projector, and I sat about two screen lengths away and I watched in total awe.... it really looked 'like a movie' and that's what I was looking for and it delivered. I have been looking for something that could do that for that price for a loooooooooooooooooooooong time and obviously many other creatives have as well or it wouldn't be so popular.

Sure, there is no 'one tool fits all' for movie making but when people have a small budget and big dreams and they want the best possible look for their buck... the gh1 with the hack is pretty dang hard to be right now. I dare say nothing beats it right now in terms of value and visual bang for buck.
 
Last edited:
DVCPRO format was only actually 960x720 pixels and doing weird scaling.

Ah hem...you don't need to do any upscaling if your vertical pixels are already at 720, right? (for a 720p shoot...at 1080 the DVCPRO HD resolution is 1280x1080).

I projected some of my GH1.3 footage directly from the camera onto a huge screen with a 10,000 lumens dlp projector, and I sat about two screen lengths away and I watched in total awe.... it really looked 'like a movie' and that's what I was looking for and it delivered.

Did you ever do that with your HVX?
 
I think the GH1/HDSLRs DO contribute to a filmic look, primarily through the interchangeable lens mount and the shallow DOF. They don't have the colorspace of film, or the resolution of film, but people don't care (and some of those limitations may not be so noticeable with lower-end projectors and such).
 
Well, the projector I originally did it on was a consumer infocus dlp I believe and the one I projected on more recently was a very high end industrial panasonic model and the brightness and color was strikingly different - but as far as the look, as long as I was careful with my movements it looked pretty spectacular....

example.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO_h_Irqn_4&hd=1
at about 1:21 into that clip I have the kit lens completely wide, hand held, panning slowly and carefully. Despite the deep depth of field and a wide shot, and all the areas where there could be aliasing on the vertical lines and jello / skew could really show up it looked fantastic on a projector and unless i went REALLY really close to the sceen where I could start to see pixels, I wasn't seeing the issues that plague DSLRS I was seeing what looked like a movie like image to me in a movie theater projected... I was very happy with it and very impressed as were the other folks who knew nothing about cameras... everyone was asking my what I shot it on and couldn't believe when I pointed to the little GH1, and that was a horror shot for dslrs... wide angle.. deep depth of field... hand held... lots of strong angled lines and detail... I figured if THAT shot passed, the medium and close up shots were cake, which they are, close ups on my dog were breathtaking... I really don't understand how it's only shooting little over 600 lines of resolution it did seem to be more to me.

I hate the jello, it drives me crazy, it was my biggest issue with the ex1 when it first came out, but I work around it for the price.

Go mojo go.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I hate jello too. And unfortunately, I've seen plenty of people submitting material for "reel nights" that have a ****-ton of jello that I would be embarrassed to have shot, let alone shown the masses.
 
I agree with you. Jello ruins it no matter how pretty it is.

I am shooting my first 'real' short film and when I say 'real' meaning I plan to enter it into festivals to be played at movie houses where as ALL of my stuff previously has been sketches for my website, or cable access TV.. stuff like that.... I have been doing video since I was like 10 years old with an Amiga toaster then a flyer and I was always pissed off that nothing looked like film. So I will have a budget of about $4000 self raised and I am shooting primarily with two GH1s (hacked) and because of the jello issue I am shooting a few action heavy camera movement heavy scenes with a hpx170 and so far in my tests that combo can match up pretty damn well. I'm excited.
 
Yeah, my buddy DP'd a feature and used his HVX in conjunction with 7Ds for shots where the jello was a problem. He said they matched pretty well.

Best of luck to you on your short.

If you're shooting with two GH1s, strap 'em together and go 3D!
 
I don't know...I think the form factor of HDSLRs (in general) may be a bit too wide to get the lenses on a parallel plane and close enough together for the effect to work properly.
 
There's always that $28,000 3D thing prototype that they showed with the AF-100... but you could buy 28 GH1s for that and shoot in 14d.
 
After watching the 4k on a 4k monitor... I am of the opinion it looks like crap. ALL that added resolution yet they only allocated it twice the bandwidth... it's completely over compressed.

Not that anyone can see it anyway... but even if you could, until they ad more bandwidth to it, it's useless, and it seems 4k uploads are suffering from bad youtube down sampling when viewed at any other resolution from 1080p on down, whereas the 1080p files look great at 1080p, 720p, 480p, 360....

So.. in essence you are ruining your audience's experience of your production by uploading the 4k file and you are better off at this point down sampling it yourself and uploading a 1080p... until they do more work on it.

In all the 4k files I have seen, the detailed scenes are a compression nightmare and not working ... the bark on the tree and dark scenes of the forest in this clip are moving all over the place and making me sea sick.
 
Last edited:
Don't know what monitor you are using or weather you are watching it in 1080 or original but for me the original is very crisp and clear, sorry to say but much more so than your video IMO. Now we all perceive things differently especially our own material compared to others so who knows(could just be my misguided perception), I just can't understand how you can complain about this it's a step in the right direction. As others have noted (on other forums) the compression seems to be due to making videos as accessible as possible around the world. Hopefully, like they have done before, as the world standard connection speed increases they will improve their compression, but who knows.

Ah well to each his own.

have a good one
 
Looked at it 'original' 4k setting on sharp 4k studio lcd display... looked very poor... viewed it at 1080p at home on a 1080p LG 24 inch... looked poor. I am not complaining about the 'material' or the shooter or dp or any of that, but the encode is VERY poor.. surely you have to see the dark spots bouncing all over the place and the macro blocking on the wood. This is at any resolution.... this has nothing to do with my footage vs that.. of course the red has more resolution.... I am talking about the quality of the encode...

Am I insane? am I seeing things? Anyone else?
 
Well then my point stands - since 99% of your audience is going to be viewing in 1080p or under (most 720p or under) why would you turn your beautiful redcam piece in at 4k to have it 'messed up' at the actual resolutions people are going to watch it at? That was the point of my post. You got a little defensive there I was not slamming the work itself. Most of the comments section had the same issue so I don't think I am seeing it wrong. Again... it's brand new and an odd move towards future formats EXTREMELY early... but maybe that means by the time anyone ever views things like this other than as a total experiment - it will be a lot better.

PS: if you were watching my footage on your 4k monitor at full screen of course it is going to look like crap compared against the red 4k footage because you are blowing it up 6 times and using 'flash'.... down sampling on youtube works OK but up sampling is AWFUL... you need to watch it on 1080p on a 1080p monitor and at that resolution, I firmly stand that the encoding - not necessarily my shooting of my dogs, is many times better.

There see... I can get defensive too!

:costumed-smiley-047
 
Last edited:
Here is the clearest and sharpest 720p I have seen on youtube. It was shot with a Nikon D5000 and a camcorder I believe. I think the climbing shots that are so sharp with very shallow depth of field are actually still images shot in a sequence and then encoded as video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xKsf8uW4CU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9xygs9ieo0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku3sRrMXtx4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLZfnPP_hSU&feature=related
 
Back
Top