You need one Hell of a computer for 1080

[Green Hornet]

I was just curious as to which computer components everyone, who is actually editing 1080 footage, is using?

For someone eager to jump on to the HD bandwagon, I just want to make them aware that the $5,500 for the camera is only the start of the money spending.
Expect to pay an additional $5,500 on computers, P2 cards, and the like.

I have been researching and trying out new systems, components, and for the PC side of things, here is what I am finding your basic needs will be for 1080 editing.

You will need the highest performance video card with a minimum of 256 ram, you should go with 512 ram, and a PCIe interface.

Xeon processors do NOT optimise the video performance, nor do P4 chips, due to the inefficient means of the processor design. You really need a more modern design such as the Athlon X2, or the newer Pentium dual core processors. Essentially you get similiar performance, but more efficient performance while using half the clock speed to do so. In otherwords, the older P4 at 3.06 ghz, only needs 1.5 ghz on the newer processors to do the same amount of work, while not hogging the bus for other tasks. Xenon and P4 use the same old design principles, so switch to the newer ones (65nm on Intel, or X2 on AMD).

Anything that says "hyperthreaded" is old technology, true dual process is not hyperthreaded.

For 1080, you will need at least a processor over 2.2 gig with the newer design (65nm on intel, X2 on AMD).


So if you only have the $5,500 for the camera, expect to hold of untill you can get the other $5,500 for the computer and P2 cards/readers, or just don't expect to do 1080 easily.


The idea of streaming 1080.....well I would have to see it to believe it, and I'd hate to see the cost to allow that.

Just my 25 cents (this is 2006...inflated rates)

 

[mochouinard]

You will need the highest performance video card with a minimum of 256 ram, you should go with 512 ram, and a PCIe interface.

This is not true. A good video card is important for color reproduction and responsiveness, but the ram inside and the PCIe are not needed for this 2D application. The memory will only need maybe +/-32mb of buffer for your 1920x1200 monitor. For the PCIe, 3D video card transfer alot more information that an 2D application would, especially since it not a CAD application, so it do not use special video card capability. Now if you want a Editing Video Card, Matrox make them for real time transition and stuff like that.

Xenon processors do NOT optimise the video performance, nor do P4 chips, due to the inefficient means of the processor design. You really need a more modern design such as the Athalon X2, or the newer Pentium dual core processors. Essentially you get similiar performance, but more efficient performance while using half the clock speed to do so. In otherwords, the older P4 at 3.06 ghz, only needs 1.5 ghz on the newer processors to do the same amount of work, while not hogging the bus for other tasks. Xenon and P4 use the same old design principles, so switch to the newer ones (65nm on Intel, or X2 on AMD).

First, Xenon = Xeon, Athalon = Athlon. Now days the GHZ are not as important. For example my laptop is a 2.13ghz Intel processor, but have more cache, so run at about 3ghz. But a P4 3ghz is Fast ennuf for editing HD. if my laptop can do it in Avid, your desktop with P4 3ghz will too. Now Xeon is fast, and normally offer better result at encoding video than P4. But you do not have to freak out, a dual xeon 3ghz will do more than fine, except will be noisy because of the fans. AMD Dual Core are the processor that interest me the most, but since I already have the dual xeon 3ghz, I wont need to change it.

Anything that says "hyperthreaded" is old technology, true dual process is not hyperthreaded.

Ofcourse, and it was always be. Some application require you to disable hyperthreading.

For 1080, you will need at least a processor over 2.2 gig with the newer design (65nm on intel, X2 on AMD).

Like I said not necesary, it would be faster for sure, but not necesarry

So if you only have the $5,500 for the camera, expect to hold of untill you can get the other $5,500 for the computer and P2 cards/readers, or just don't expect to do 1080 easily.

I did not received my camera yet, but sample video I got worked fine. Laptop had some issues because my disk is full and is fragmented, but except that, when I did a cleanup it worked fine.

My editing station will be a dual Xeon 3.06ghz, 2gig of ram, 1 TerraBytes of Raid 5 Storage, using Avid Xpress Pro HD. This system I bought over 1 year ago, and it will do the job for DVCPRO HD editing.

 

[BigMike]

My system is a dual Xeon 3.2 with 4 Gigs of RAM (Windows only sees 3.2) and an NVidia QuadroFX 3000 AGP, my internal drives are Ultra320 SCSI 15K RPM drives that total 185 Gigs.

I don't want to buy a new computer yet!!! Haven't paid this one off. Don't want to spend more on dual core until the new Windows OS comes out and until After Effects benefits from the speed and memory usage. Right now After Effects only can only be sped up with Nucleo and a render farm (If I buy a new computer, my wife gets this one for her 3D art... so no renderfarm for Popsy).

I am, however, willing to invest in a hardware accelerotor card or maybe Avid if it will work in real time. I shudder to think about render time in After Effects with 1080!

Instead of buying a SCSI or SATA video RAID, I'm actually looking at the G-Tech G-RAID PRO 2.5 TB with RAID 3 and hot swappable drives. It's under 4 thousand bucks, and run 3 streams of HD and my 500Gig GRAID has been very reliable.

Waiting to hear what Barry says about AVid and Canopus. Perhaps the Canopus Edius card will serve me. I'm waiting to hear back from them about supporting PRemiere Pro 2 with the card like it does for PPro 1.5.

Crying babys. Gotta fly.

 

[Green Hornet]

My friends are gamers, I am not.
They spend big bucks on different systems and video cards.
Before I upgrade, I have been loading software on their systems, and trying different things out.

My post above is derived from these tests.
So far, the intel systems, are not doing so well with 1080 footage via ray light from the HVX200. It seems ray light is dragging down the whole system (maybe it is not made to use the faster ways of other codecs....is ray light a codec, or a container?)

Anyway, the best system so far was an Athlon X2, with an ATI video card of 256 megs ram.

My laptop plays the Karate footage from Barry just fine. I have P4 hyperthreaded 3.06ghz processor with a gig of ram and upgraded laptop hard drive. It does not play, smoothly, the Files from my HVX200 at 1080 24p via raylight. It plays about half 20 frames instead of 24, and that is only after changing some of the video card settings.

My laptop plays all 720p footage just fine. I would like some feedback from others doing 1080 footage and what system they are on.

If i convert the footage to something other than ray light it plays fine.


I am just trying to establish a minimum computer system for 1080 editing, viewing and streaming.


On the pc side, I could not figure a way to stream 1080 footage...maybe it is not possible, but I give up trying that idea.

I may just go the P2 store route after all.
My laptop workflow is slow, takes 2 people , and too many things taking up power outlets. I never seem to have enough outlets for power.

 

[jeffyjones]

I think you're grossly over-estimating what you need. My old Athlon XP mobile, I think it was a 2800+ that I've over-clocked to 2.4 GHz, can display even H.264 QT 1080p at around 16-20 fps. Given the ridiculous compression of H.264, I feel confident that the DVCPRO HD in Avid is going to playback just fine. I just won't know until I get the damn camera.

 

[mochouinard]

Ok hold on, raylight is said to be slow in the first place. To my understand for realtime raylight transcoding, you need to lower the resolution. Raylight supose to have 3 buttom for the quality.

Btw raylight is not a requirement for editing software like Avid or Canopus.

You are talking about 2 different beast

 

[Green Hornet]

This is not true. A good video card is important for color reproduction and responsiveness, but the ram inside and the PCIe are not needed for this 2D application. The memory will only need maybe +/-32mb of buffer for your 1920x1200 monitor. For the PCIe, 3D video card transfer alot more information that an 2D application would, especially since it not a CAD application, so it do not use special video card capability. Now if you want a Editing Video Card, Matrox make them for real time transition and stuff like that.

All the Matrox and other cards do is use their own processors to do what is easier done by todays graphics cards. The software today uses the VIDEO
CARD GPU to do what use to be done by these "MATROX" cards. It is no longer necessary to buy such a card.

First, Xenon = Xeon, Athalon = Athlon. Now days the GHZ are not as important. For example my laptop is a 2.13ghz Intel processor, but have more cache, so run at about 3ghz. But a P4 3ghz is Fast ennuf for editing HD. if my laptop can do it in Avid, your desktop with P4 3ghz will too. Now Xeon is fast, and normally offer better result at encoding video than P4. But you do not have to freak out, a dual xeon 3ghz will do more than fine, except will be noisy because of the fans. AMD Dual Core are the processor that interest me the most, but since I already have the dual xeon 3ghz, I wont need to change it.

Not sure which processor you have, but it's probably more to do with it being a new design, than the cache. Again, the new processors do more with
about half the speed used in the older designs such as the P4.

Xeon is the old design...it is fast in a relative sense, but slow design.

Ofcourse, and it was always be. Some application require you to disable hyperthreading.

Like I said not necesary, it would be faster for sure, but not necesarry

I did not received my camera yet, but sample video I got worked fine. Laptop had some issues because my disk is full and is fragmented, but except that, when I did a cleanup it worked fine.

My editing station will be a dual Xeon 3.06ghz, 2gig of ram, 1 TerraBytes of Raid 5 Storage, using Avid Xpress Pro HD. This system I bought over 1 year ago, and it will do the job for DVCPRO HD editing.

I think my new desktop will be some board with AM2 chipset
(the latest amd chip dual core) and a pci express video board.
Most likely the ATI based card with 512 megs ram. they have hardware optimised H.264 and other things I like, thats most likely what I will use for online video and editing from my sanyo HD1 (on the waiting list at B@H).

I wanted to go intel core duo, so I purchased 2 one gig sticks of DDR2 ram, then after testing, I feel AMD was the better system/processor for speed, heat, and 1080 video. The only thing that supports these ram sticks is the new AM2 based motherboards due out next month, or intel, which I now feel is inferior.


If anyone has a system setup that can edit and play raylight 1080 video files, please tell me about it.

 

[baquajim]

So far, the intel systems, are not doing so well with 1080 footage via ray light from the HVX200. It seems ray light is dragging down the whole system (maybe it is not made to use the faster ways of other codecs....is ray light a codec, or a container?)


My laptop plays the Karate footage from Barry just fine. I have P4 hyperthreaded 3.06ghz processor with a gig of ram and upgraded laptop hard drive. It does not play, smoothly, the Files from my HVX200 at 1080 24p via raylight. It plays about half 20 frames instead of 24, and that is only after changing some of the video card settings.

.

I am having the same experience. It is Raylight. A great product but not the ideal situation. They are going to improve it, but for 1080p, it really bogs down the system.

 

[obendega]

If you build an Athlon X2 4200 computer from scratch it doesn't cost that much.

I bought an X2 4200, a good motherboard, decent video card and power supply from www.newegg.com for $600. I had all the other parts laying around from older computers. 4 gigs of RAM would only be about $300 more.

-Justin O'Neill
www.podsafeaudio.com

 

[Zack Birlew]

If you check the threads I've been involved with you should come across a few threads where I list specific recommended computer specs for various purposes. I tend to list the top of the line stuff but it at least gives you a working model to work down from if you can't afford it as is. Computers can get really expensive without any effort. The platform is also important whether it is Macintosh or PC. Keep in mind that Apple is releasing many new products this year, some at NAB and even after that. There's supposed to be new stuff announced tommorow by the way. If you'd like my personal recommendations for PC or Mac configurations, just PM me and I'll get back to you.

 

[Barry_Green]

Don't know what the PC solutions require. I do know that a two-year-old Mac Powerbook G4 1.33ghz can handle 1080p or 1080i in realtime. I think a $700 Mac Mini (with 1gb) can too. So if the PC solution turns out to be extraordinarily expensive, don't forget the Mac over there. The way I looked at it, a Mac Mini costs about the same as a single 4GB P2 card.

 

[BigMike]

Don't know what the PC solutions require. I do know that a two-year-old Mac Powerbook G4 1.33ghz can handle 1080p or 1080i in realtime. I think a $700 Mac Mini (with 1gb) can too. So if the PC solution turns out to be extraordinarily expensive, don't forget the Mac over there. The way I looked at it, a Mac Mini costs about the same as a single 4GB P2 card.

Holding out for a vote on Avid and Canopus from you, Barry!

I'll buy a Mac if I have to. Already checking with my software suppliers about cross platform upgrades (I can't believe I'm going that far). If I buy a Mac, though, I'm not screwing around. I'm buying the G5 dual core with 8 Gigs (which will be completely obsolete a year from now, so what am I thinking?).

I would much rather find a temp solution and buy the next Gen PC when it's out, so let us know if Canopus or Avid works. I've taken Avid classes and I know it's pretty kick ass.

 

[Terence Lehane]

I'm getting the Mac Quad. It's just about the fastest and best computer you can get now and it's not going to be obsolete as soon as the Power Mac Intels come out. My computers usually last 3 to 4 years before starting to age and I rarely get the very latest ones. So I'm really confident the Quad will still be there in 3 years time.

Add to that the AJA LHe card (with DVCPRO HD acceleration), FCP's special fast rendering system (forget the name for now) and a raid system and your really kicking ass (as you Americans like to say).

The Matrox Axio is ridiculously expensive ($14,000 for the HP station + the card. Raid storage and monitors are NOT included !!)

Barry has a good article on the site about what you need to edit HD and he shows that you do not even need a Raid system for DVCPRO HD. But I'll be getting one for the job and because I just need the storage.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I was just curious as to which computer components everyone, who is actually editing 1080 footage, is using?

For someone eager to jump on to the HD bandwagon, I just want to make them aware that the $5,500 for the camera is only the start of the money spending.
Expect to pay an additional $5,500 on computers, P2 cards, and the like.

I have been researching and trying out new systems, components, and for the PC side of things, here is what I am finding your basic needs will be for 1080 editing.

You will need the highest performance video card with a minimum of 256 ram, you should go with 512 ram, and a PCIe interface.

Xeon processors do NOT optimise the video performance, nor do P4 chips, due to the inefficient means of the processor design. You really need a more modern design such as the Athlon X2, or the newer Pentium dual core processors. Essentially you get similiar performance, but more efficient performance while using half the clock speed to do so. In otherwords, the older P4 at 3.06 ghz, only needs 1.5 ghz on the newer processors to do the same amount of work, while not hogging the bus for other tasks. Xenon and P4 use the same old design principles, so switch to the newer ones (65nm on Intel, or X2 on AMD).

Anything that says "hyperthreaded" is old technology, true dual process is not hyperthreaded.

For 1080, you will need at least a processor over 2.2 gig with the newer design (65nm on intel, X2 on AMD).


So if you only have the $5,500 for the camera, expect to hold of untill you can get the other $5,500 for the computer and P2 cards/readers, or just don't expect to do 1080 easily.


The idea of streaming 1080.....well I would have to see it to believe it, and I'd hate to see the cost to allow that.

Just my 25 cents (this is 2006...inflated rates)

What a shame. My system meets and exceeds these specs. Too bad I can't get the camera. I could save a few thousand right off the top. :thumbsup:

 

[willcprutzman]

Don't know what the PC solutions require. I do know that a two-year-old Mac Powerbook G4 1.33ghz can handle 1080p or 1080i in realtime. I think a $700 Mac Mini (with 1gb) can too. So if the PC solution turns out to be extraordinarily expensive, don't forget the Mac over there. The way I looked at it, a Mac Mini costs about the same as a single 4GB P2 card.

Hey Barry, just so you know... in my experience there is no way a mac mini could be a practical solution for 1080p. I bought one to use as a media computer with my 720p projector... no luck, had to return it... the little guy chokes on playback of .H264 at 720p HD resolutions. Maybe the Mactel mini will be able to do a bit more

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I think Barry is actually using one as a solution ?

Barry ?

 

[ChuckS]

My system is a dual Xeon 3.2 with 4 Gigs of RAM (Windows only sees 3.2) and an NVidia QuadroFX 3000 AGP, my internal drives are Ultra320 SCSI 15K RPM drives that total 185 Gigs.

I am, however, willing to invest in a hardware accelerotor card or maybe Avid if it will work in real time. I shudder to think about render time in After Effects with 1080!

Instead of buying a SCSI or SATA video RAID, I'm actually looking at the G-Tech G-RAID PRO 2.5 TB with RAID 3 and hot swappable drives. It's under 4 thousand bucks, and run 3 streams of HD and my 500Gig GRAID has been very reliable.

Waiting to hear what Barry says about AVid and Canopus. Perhaps the Canopus Edius card will serve me. I'm waiting to hear back from them about supporting PRemiere Pro 2 with the card like it does for PPro 1.5.

Crying babys. Gotta fly.

Hi BigMike, it sounds like you have more than enough computer. I think G-Tech is going to offer the G-RAID Pro in a SATA flavor, I have the G-SATA and love it. But either way this sounds like a good move.

Regarding Avid, I recently returned Avid Xpress Pro 5.2 because although it edited HD with relative ease I had no way to output component HD in realtime. Their solution was to sugges that I purchase the "video Mojo" accelerator for $1600 which down converted the HD to SD so I could monitor on an SD monitor. It lookes like **** and kind of defeats the purpose of all those big pixels if you can't watch them.

Regarding the Canopus cards, I'm a big fan, I recently sold my DVRexRTPro system and I don't want to sound like I'm damning them with faint praise, but the concept of needing hardware acceloration at a time when things are getting to the point where we can edit HD in realtime in software seems to be a little backward. Edius reminds me of Vehas and I could never get into Vegas. If you like Vegas then it might be the right solution for you. However, when you look underneath the covers at the level of integration of both Apple and Adobe between their production suites I find it hard to believe that Eduis can compete with that.

I believe it will be a very short amount of time before Adobe has a good solution for editing DVCProHD. Just a thought. :2vrolijk_08:


PS -- :love4: these new smiles...:kali:

 

[icicle22]

I think Barry is actually using one as a solution ?

Barry ?

Actually John....I am. Barry has a dual G5.

It is true a MAC-MINI will choke on h.264 video @1280x720. H.264 compresses out the wazoo and requires a very fast processor to decode in realtime. So if your goal is to play hi-def h.264 encoded video then the MAC-MINI is not a good choice. However it plays actual DVCPROHD-1080 and 720 all day long with one hand tied behind it's back. If you untie that hand it can actually edit and do transitions and have effects applied to clips in FCP and play them back realtime. I am talking about simple color correction and tweaking...not massive 3d effects mind you.

Oh....and I paid $449.00 for my MacMini and $75 for 1 gig of ram. I also have FCP set to use my external USB2 drive as a scratch disk....so no video is playing from the internal 4200rpm drive.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Tks Ice for this information

 

[steindj]

Oh....and I paid $449.00 for my MacMini and $75 for 1 gig of ram.

Where did you get the RAM, icicle22? That's a good deal. I hope that wasn't a tie-in with the purchase of the computer. I just need some extra RAM.