XLR adapter or Field Recorder?

D

dcvideoinc

Member
About to shoot a short soon and I'm wondering if I'm ok with my Sony A7S XLR adapter or if I should record with a two system set up and go to a field recorder? Also, should I go through a field mixer even if I'm only recording two channels?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
 
If audio is important, a second dedicated person to handle recording it would be good. Use that as the main audio and send a mix to the camera as a backup and to help in post.
 
I also suggest recording the sound separately and send a 'scratch track' to the camera for sync.
If your thinking of a camera mounted mic... that's about the worst possible place for picking up dialog.
An experienced sound person should also be used.
 
Rick R said:
I also suggest recording the sound separately and send a 'scratch track' to the camera for sync.
If your thinking of a camera mounted mic... that's about the worst possible place for picking up dialog.
An experienced sound person should also be used.
Click to expand...

This is what makes me question why the Tascam DR-70D put in microphones, I just don't see much value in this type of device. Should have deleted the mics and lowered the price, maybe put a dedicated stereo mic level output on it for camera feed like the DR-60D has.
 
Thank you all for your input.
A couple of notes I should've cleared out:
- We're using a Boom with a sound operator (not super experienced)
- Budget is tops $100/day
- Yes, sound is important
Also, the question really is more about the quality of the RECORDING DEVICE. Is it OK to record to CAMERA with XLR adapters or should I record to a DEDICATED FIELD RECORDER (like a Zoom or Tascam)
Thanks again!
 
Greg_E said:
This is what makes me question why the Tascam DR-70D put in microphones, I just don't see much value in this type of device. Should have deleted the mics and lowered the price, maybe put a dedicated stereo mic level output on it for camera feed like the DR-60D has.
Click to expand...

The 70D mics are only used for ambient, reference, and for audio notes. I don't think there would be a noticeable cost savings if the mics were taken out. ( probably $10 savings at most )
 
dcvideoinc said:
the question really is more about the quality of the RECORDING DEVICE. Is it OK to record to CAMERA with XLR adapters or should I record to a DEDICATED FIELD RECORDER (like a Zoom or Tascam)?
Click to expand...
Assuming the camera is DSLR, use a second system recorder. DSLRs are notorious for having low quality audio components.
Of course Zoom or Tascam recorders are usually not considered high quality either, but better than a DSLR.
 
You should record double system sound. Camera audio is reference and the audio on the recorder is the main audio. Does the $100/day cover the boom op AND the sound mixer, or is the boom op separate. You might be able to get a newbie fresh out of college that might have a DR-70D for that budget, but not anyone with a lot of experience and gear, but that's ok, we all start somewhere, right? If the $100/day goes between the boom op and the sound mixer, well, then...good luck. $100/day on a typical production shoot (which is usually at least 12 hours per day) is already super low. You might be able to get someone actually doing audio that's still in film school to do it.

If this is something where you are doing the project to get experience and learn the craft, then don't worry about blowing your budget on it. It's a learning experience, and part of that is learning to work reasonably within the limitations of your budget and what the real world expectations are. You aren't going to get Mad Max Fury Road sound on this budget, but if that's not your goal, then that's ok. If that is your goal, then you might need to re-adjust what your expectations are.
 
What sort of shotgun mic do you intend to use? And please don't say Rode NTG 1 or 2 as these have a very low output level and push the limits of portable recorders preamps give a very high hiss level on the recording.
 
One thing... If you look at prices on things like a good xlr to DSLR device, something with gain controls, you are already at a price point where you can buy a Tascam DR-60D mk2 and most of the way to a DR-70D recorder. The recorders kind of suck as a mixer, but the recording side is decent and would be way better than any camera that records in a compressed codec.

Now if you are using a camera that already comes with xlr inputs (not some kind of adapter) and records uncompressed (wave), then there may not be a big difference in quality.
 
A camera body is a hot and noisy EMI environment for audio circuits, even when they are good ones. Most cameras have poor ones XLR or not.
I measured signal to noise and THD on my old Canon GL2 with a Beachtek adapter and my Bolex which has excellent preamps. The Bolex has 1/10th the distortion, but both maxed out at around -65dB SN on mic input. My Motu UltraLite is more than 10dB quieter. -65dB is probably close to the max SN you will see out of a camera circuit.
 
I haven't ever checked our broadcast cameras, but then getting super high quality isn't really a requirement so a -65db noise floor is probably pretty common. Our old DVCam cameras were about -65db or so, but haven't checked our newest cameras. I know the audio on my GH2 is worthless for anything but a scratch track, the AC3 encoding kills all hope of anything decent.

I'd be surprised if your MOTU was that high, we have one of their older 896hd devices and it is under -90db with any decent microphone gain levels, though we do see improvement with a high end preamp and line in, somewhere around -100db or better. Our Audio Science computer sound cards are also around -100db, but none of those are what could be considered cheap!
 
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