XDCAM EX 1 motion questions

I don't see any noticable loss in resolution I could put down to anything but motion blur but I did notice a regular stutter. I have a feeling it was more related to either my LCD screen updating or my quicktime player etc, i was too regular (like every second) for what felt like 1 frame. Could it be some type of frame rate conversion has happened somewhere?
 
BINGO! Vimeo doesn't support 30p so it did a 24p decimate at their end. I forgot this. I will redo the shoot at 24p with both the ex1 and the DVX100 later in the week. However, downloading the original file should eliminate this. If you're seeing it after downloading, it's not the video.

But it was interesting to see that there was no appreciable loss of resolution whatsoever. The fine text was clear the entire time other than like you said, motion blur. Also looking at the vertical edges and lines, there was no appreciable skewing either.

I don't know how fast people are panning, but when shot with "Hollywood" speed, everything look A.OK. as far as I can tell.
 
I've been shooting non-stop for the last three days, when I get a chance to catch a breath I'll post some footage as well. Perrono's pans look better than mine.....I think. I'll know more tomorrow.
 
Perrone I've downloaded it and seen the stutter that Guy was seeing (it sounds like it's the same one).

Hey... can you set shutter at 1/24??? Someone said that a few posts behind.

Does anyone now which shutter speed/angle is the usual one when shooting 35mm at 24 frames? I was also wondering... shouldn't the EX1 enable you to change the speed and the angle at the same time? As far as I know these are two different things in photography, but the EX1 seems to fix speed when adjusting by angle and fix angle when adjusting by speed, am I wrong?

Cheers..
 
The "industry standard" settings when using adapters and 24p is 1/48 or 180 degree shutter angle.

I was asking not saying about setting the shutter speed at 1/24 a couple of posts ago. I think if you set the shutter to OFF should accomplish this but i'm not sure.

Shutter speed and shutter angle mean the same thing. Refering to the shutter speed in degrees is practiced in the motion picture industry because film cameras don't have a curtain type shutter mechanism like the ones found in still photography cameras. It's a disc with a part of it cutout. When the cutout part of the shutter passes in front of the film it exposes it to light. The timeframe in which this happens is the shutter speed and it's controlled by how large or small the angle of the cutout is.
So a 180 degree angle is equivalent to a 1/48 shutter speed.
Here's a formula to convert shutter angles to shutter speeds http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/freshdv/story/shutter_speed_vs_shutter_angle/
Hope this explains it.
 
So here's a question.. and I'll verify this tonight.

Lets say I set my frame rate to 24p and my shutter to a speed of 1/48. If I then change my frame rate to 60i or 30p does my shutter follow suit and maintain a 180 degree shutter or does it stay where it was set?

If we make the shutter speed adjusted by ANGLE instead of an explicit speed, does it have the expected behavior in the previous example and change from 1/48 to 1/60?

I'll get on that this evening, and shoot a couple more tests.
 
Why should your shutter speed or angle change when you change from 24p to 60i ? I don't understand.

The EX1 has an electronic shutter and it has nothing to do with the disc type shutter in film cameras. The reason it lets you set the shutter speed in degrees is to make it easy for film folks or people that are used to the shutter in angles to work with it.
 
Gogu said:
Why should your shutter speed or angle change when you change from 24p to 60i ? I don't understand.

The EX1 has an electronic shutter and it has nothing to do with the disc type shutter in film cameras. The reason it lets you set the shutter speed in degrees is to make it easy for film folks or people that are used to the shutter in angles to work with it.
Click to expand...

It should because I'd LOVE it to keep that relationship. Even if it went to the default 180 degrees when changing modes, that would be awesome. But we'll see what happens.
 
NOt sure between interlaced and progressive but from what I have read, it you set it at 180deg and change from 24p to 60p the shutter speed will change from 1/48 to 1/120 automatically (well it has to, to maintain the 180 setting).
 
Well some answers,

I verified that if you leave the shutter angle alone, and change frame rates, the angle changes along with you. VERY convenient if you are trying to work by F-Stop (or T-Stop).

Also, some new videos are up on Vimeo.

The 24p pan test with the EX1. Download it to see the HD verison as I only get one HD video per week...

http://www.vimeo.com/2846111


And the 24p comparison test with my DVX100

http://www.vimeo.com/2846143

You be the judge...
 
It now looks ok Perrone!

I still have many doubts about the EX1's 24p mode being 'just like' working with filmic. I think filmic is much more permissive, maybe it is more like EX1's 30p mode regarding stutter. For example now I think about Rodriguez' El Mariachi, which was shot in 16mm very gorilla style and I don't remember seeing any stutter anywere. Maybe there is some frame blending we should be doing to soften this stutter?

Mind if I ask a side question? Why Vimeo/Exposure Room and not YouTube's HD option? I've tested it with the EX1 and it looks just very good. Thanks!
 
I've done HD on Youtube and it's fine, but users can't download the original file there which I thought was important for this little project.
 
Guy please understand if shutter angle and shutter speed are the same thing just expressed in different ways. If you change from 24p to 60p nothing changes it's still 180 degrees or 1/50 but (actually it maybe changing to 1/60 i'm not sure) the frame darkens a bit because there is less light hitting the sensor at 60 fps.

In film cameras the same happens. You have to compensate by opening up the iris when doing slowmotion work and closing it down when doing less than 24 fps.

Iudex, film is film and digital is digital. The stutter you mention may be bcause of bad compression or some other technical issues but the effect is almost the same though it looks different on digital and on film because they are different mediums.
 
A bit more on the shutter angle/shutter speed issue.

Let's say I am on a shoot and I am going to shoot part of the shoot in 720/60p and the rest in say 1080/24p. I'd like a shutter angle of 180 degrees for both. Essentially, I want a common shutter of half the frame rate.

If I shut a shutter speed of 1/120 for the 720/60p shoot, then go into the menu and change the camera 10 1080/24p, the shutter stays at 1/120 which is NOT what I want. I want that shutter to change to 1/48. So I have to do it manually.

If I choose to do things by shutter angle, then the half-framerate shutter speed is preserved no matter what framerate I select on the camera.

Make sense?
 
Yep I understand what you are saying but I don't think it works this way. Maybe someone with omre experience will tell us.
 
PerroneFord said:
...

If I choose to do things by shutter angle, then the half-framerate shutter speed is preserved no matter what framerate I select on the camera.

Make sense?
Click to expand...

Totally, this is exactly what I was saying as well, although I would have said the shutter speed is double frame rate, not half. I thought when shooting at 24p with a 180 shutter angle you get 1/48 sec shutter (wouldn't half be 1/12sec?), if you turn the shutter off (switch at the font of the camera) you get 1/24sec
 
Well, half means half the exposure time. 24fps means one frame every 24th of a second, and so a "half" shutter would expose for half that 24hz time, or 1/48th.

The name of the number is double, but because it's a fractional denominator the doubled size means the actual duration is half.
 
cool

tomatoe, tomatoe. Oh, that doesn't work so well when you don't actually say it ;-)
 
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