X-Men: First Class

[Brandon Rice]

X-Men First Class was not a re-boot IMO

 

[vcassel]

I don't agree that the comic book series is laden with continuity errors. DC was big for that, but a lot of Marvel (but especially Xmen) has been able to dodge the continuity bullet. The biggest example of continuity irks would be Psylocke, and even her bizarre continuity issues can be explained.

Obviously there are some people who scratch their head as to how Wolverine can (seemingly) be 10 places at once, but I don't know of many instances in its 50-odd year history where the Xmen book has glaring continuity issues.

How the Xorn/Magneto thing was handled after Morrison's run is considered one of the most baffling continuity issues in modern Marvel comics.

To me continuity and "quality" are the same thing.

That's fair. I was arguing against your previous use of it as a blanket statement.

Sticking to continuity doesn't make a film better, but ignoring continuity certainly makes a film worse.

No, it certainly seems like it would depend.

And the Evil Dead movies don't apply. You know that. Everyone knows that.

Apparently I don't, but I'll bite: why not?

Similairly, the Living Dead franchise doesn't apply because it's the same story/events simply taking place in whatever time period they're in. If all of the films had been made in the 60s, then all of the films would have taken place in the 60s -- so something like that doesn't apply to them, because that's been their formula throughout.

Again, I think you're looking at it in absolutes--which is fine; it's your opinion. They seem like sequels to me. They don't really cross over, but the themes are successive. They also seem to follow a logical progression in epidemic regardless of how far apart they were released.

Just because Dark Knight isn't called Batman Begins II doesn't mean that a viewer should be satisified if the film retains the talent but ignores the previous film. In no way would Dark Knight be a good film if it ignored Batman Begins.

Does that mean I wouldn't be able to enjoy Dark Knight if I didn't watch Batman Begins first? This is why a lot of comics and television series aim to be episodic--it's easier to pick up new fans if there isn't a tangle of myth to sort through. I think most filmmakers are the same way when handling a series of films. Obviously not always, as LOTR shows, but I think most filmmakers know that being too beholden to previous entries can erect a wall in the way of accessibility of new ticket buyers. You want to understand continuity, sure, but not be afraid to change things in order to create more drama or to insure the film stands on its own with its own logic. First Class viewers aren't paying to see all the previous x-films; for many of them, this may well be their first entry.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

Obviously not always, as LOTR shows, but I think most filmmakers know that being too beholden to previous entries can erect a wall in the way of accessibility of new ticket buyers. You want to understand continuity, sure, but not be afraid to change things in order to create more drama or to insure the film stands on its own with its own logic. First Class viewers aren't paying to see all the previous x-films; for many of them, this may well be their first entry.

LOTR is different though. Based on novels that weren't a trilogy but only one story. They were written to be one novel, but the publisher forced Tolkien to split the story into three volumes. He wanted one book.
So, not really a trilogy.

X-men First Class was made with a PG13 audience in mind. Kids who are 13 today were 2 years old when X-Men 1 came out. I'm betting a lot of them haven't seen it, and when they do, I'm betting a lot of them won't care (or notice) that Wolverine is older or any other continuity problems.

 

[Brian_Rice]

LOTR is different though. Based on novels that weren't a trilogy but only one story. They were written to be one novel, but the publisher forced Tolkien to split the story into three volumes. He wanted one book.
So, not really a trilogy.

X-men First Class was made with a PG13 audience in mind. Kids who are 13 today were 2 years old when X-Men 1 came out. I'm betting a lot of them haven't seen it, and when they do, I'm betting a lot of them won't care (or notice) that Wolverine is older or any other continuity problems.

I think it's highly unlikely that even a small portion of the audience that saw First Class had not seen at least some of the previous Xmen films.

I think the argument is interesting, though, because as VS said -- would someone be able to enjoy the Dark Knight if they'd not seen Batman Begins? I think they would have, but it would have been a lesser experience because the stakes are clearly established in Batman Begins by making Rachel a love interest and providing all of their backstory. If you only have the information from Dark Knight, then you really don't get much of what Rachel means to Bruce Wayne from that film. So while her death might be a bummer, it's much deeper (the stakes are much higher) if you have the complete story.

IMO that is what a prequel is supposed to provide -- a more complex perspective of events which have already occured. So for instance if we had another Wolverine prequel and in that prequel he had an entire relationship with Yuriko (and potentially Mariko) as he did in the comics, then when we go back to X3 and see him kill her (now as Lady Deathsrtike), neither of them knowing of their past, that would make that scene more complex and rewarding. First Class should be a great film on its own while providing a greater insight into the characters in the later films. Unfortunately because of its continuity "errors", it makes it difficult.

But again, there are several solutions to the "errors" which could still be addressed in later films.

1) The diamond girl in Origins (Silver Fox's sister) was never named Emma Frost. So regardless of who we might have "thought" the girl was, she can't be Emma Frost.

2) In the comics Xavier has regained and lost the ability to walk more times than Jean Grey has lived and died and lived again. A mutant like Josh Foley (Elixir) could easily heal Xavier and then an evil mutant could smash his legs (possibly citing it as Xavier's worst fear -- to lose the ability to walk again). In addition, Xavier is walking around in the animated series Wolverine and The Xmen through use of mechanical assistance. Maybe a mutant like Forge designed a mechanism for him that was destroyed at some point. Thus he's walking at the end of Origins but loses the ability afterwards.

3) Magneto and Xavier are together when recruiting a young Jean Grey in X3. In the comic books Magneto came back for a time to teach at the Xavier Institute. We can assume then that this happened during this time.

4) Who is Alex Summers to Scott Summers? In the comic book Alex is Scott's younger brother. I'm going to give license to the filmmakers to have Alex be Scott's father or uncle or something equally lame.

5) The most difficult of the errors is Xavier saying to Wolverine in X1 that "I met Magneto when I was 17". The only way to fix this is with another question -- Why did Professor X lie to Wolverine?

I'm not giving up on the franchise because there still may be movies to come that could fix these continuity errors. But I'm not holding my breath...

 

[Batutta]

Hey, this movie was actually fairly good. Probably my favorite X-Men film to date, although they all have flaws that keep them from being A+ for me. But this one comes the closest, balancing good character work with suspenseful action and fun scenes of superheroes duking it out. I thought the casting of Fassbender and McAvoy was brilliant and their relationship made the film for me. It's always fun to see a movie star being born and watching Fassbender finally get to be in the spotlight was great. I'd like to see Fassbender and Vaughn do a Bond film together, as the early scenes of Fassbender hunting Nazis were some of the best of the film. On the negative side; I was excited to see a period Superhero film but didn't think the film had much of a real feel for the 60's. Other than the obvious historical context, it could have just as easily been set today. I also felt that some of the character flips seemed a bit arbitrary, in particular Angel, because they didn't lay the groundwork for them. There are a lot of characters in this film so I can see why though, as it would have made a three hour movie. Also, I didn't like the female CIA agent. She seemed like a useless character and the actress seemed out of her depth. Some people have criticized January Jones, but I didn't think she was terrible. She seemed to be playing the character as it was written, a cold, emotionless ice queen. Not sure what people were expecting there. Michael Ironside playing the Michael Ironside role gave me a chuckle, though.

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

Hey, this movie was actually fairly good. Probably my favorite X-Men film to date, although they all have flaws that keep them from being A+ for me. But this one comes the closest, balancing good character work with suspenseful action and fun scenes of superheroes duking it out. I thought the casting of Fassbender and McAvoy was brilliant and their relationship made the film for me. It's always fun to see a movie star being born and watching Fassbender finally get to be in the spotlight was great. I'd like to see Fassbender and Vaughn do a Bond film together, as the early scenes of Fassbender hunting Nazis were some of the best of the film. On the negative side; I was excited to see a period Superhero film but didn't think the film had much of a real feel for the 60's. Other than the obvious historical context, it could have just as easily been set today. I also felt that some of the character flips seemed a bit arbitrary, in particular Angel, because they didn't lay the groundwork for them. There are a lot of characters in this film so I can see why though, as it would have made a three hour movie. Also, I didn't like the female CIA agent. She seemed like a useless character and the actress seemed out of her depth. Some people have criticized January Jones, but I didn't think she was terrible. She seemed to be playing the character as it was written, a cold, emotionless ice queen. Not sure what people were expecting there. Michael Ironside playing the Michael Ironside role gave me a chuckle, though.

Agree with everything you said, ESPECIALLY Michael Ironside. HAHAHAHA I was waiting for him to say "This is for all you new mutants: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself!"