X-Men: First Class
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Ian-T
Veteran
***SPOILER***
He was the only mutant that got killed off other than the bad guy (if I remember correctly). That was the most frustrating part about this movie. What the hell were they thinking....again? You should have heard some of the reaction of the audience members (including me).
But...anyways....out of all the X-Men movies this was by far the best ...at least for me.
***SPOILER***
***SPOILER***
One of the funniest moments of the movie. What made it even funnier was Pro-X and Eric's reaction. They didn't even say a word...just turned around and immediately walked out. lol
***SPOILER***
Brian_Rice
Carbonite Member
Can't believe this is from the same series of films. Absolutely awesome. I'd even go so far as to say sans Heath Ledger's performance, this might even be better than The Dark Knight. (Maybe).
The biggest problem with the Xmen films is that they've never actually stopped and had any meaningful dialog about anything. It's been all about "Do you know what happens to a Toad when it's struck by lightning?"
This film actually made me *believe* in grand manifestations of mutation. It even brought back some notions of the original Star Wars films. Extremely cool stuff.
**SPOILER**
A couple of things I think people are going to have issue with are:
1) How was Professor X walking at the end of Wolverine Origins? My thought is that it was a mental projection and that Prof X was actually seated inside the plane. 1.2) How was he walking at the beginning of X3 which was 20 years after First Class? Not sure how this one works on any level.
2) The diamond girl in Wolverine Origins? Apparently was not Emma Frost, just a girl with a similar mutation.
3) Scott Summers is Alex Summers's older brother, so why was he near Alex's age when a much older professor Xavier scooped him up? I'm going to go with filmmaker liberty on this one. It's possible that Patrick Stewart is only supposed to be a few years older at the end of Wolverine Origins -- possibly having gone bald from using the Cerebro system?
4) Why are Magento and Prof X together when they recruit Jean Grey at the beginning of X3? Most of the comic readers know that Magento actually came back to the school for a time to teach, so I'm assuming that happened during his stint working once again with the Xmen.
5) In X1 Prof X tells Wolverine that he met Magneto when he was 17. This is a pretty glaring inaccuracy and leaves us with only one possible scenario to abide continuity, which would be -- Why did Professor X lie to Wolverine? And boy, that's a stretch...
In the end I don't mind liberties in the transition from comic to screen, so long as within the films' own continuity things stay consistent.
Regardless, this film wasn't even in the same hemisphere as the first three Xmen films. Completely loved it.
However I do agree that it was in pretty poor taste to kill of the token black guy and then have the only other brown-skinned person go over to the "bad" side. But I think there's a couple things happening here, A) The early Xmen are a product of their time. All of them were white until Storm came around in the 80s. B) The good guys needed Banshee for the plot, but they also wanted a flying battle. Angel was really the only option.
In the end Beast had to be white, Havok had to be white, Mystique had to be white, Prof X, Magneto and on down the line. I think it would have been interesting to have Moira be a different race (especially since this person obviously isn't the Moira MacTaggert in X3 because that person is a doctor and also scottish). Darwin (or some character) needed to die in order to up the stakes. The only other option would have been Havok, but I'm assuming they might want that character for some future dealings potentially dealing with Cyclops?
It's tough because when I went to see First Class about 70% of the audience wasn't caucasian, and you could feel a sort of collective sigh when Angel crossed over and then again after Darwin bit it.
It'll be interesting to see if more people talk about this aspect of the film. The problem is that the source material was birthed in the 60s, and while it's taken some strides forward in terms of nationalities, the amount of African American Xmen is still pretty limited (Storm, Bishop, Spyke, Maggot, Monet and a few others make up the short list). Most people hope that Apocalypse will be played by a mixed race person (ala Dwayne Johnson); and for that matter, Sinister could be cast as any ethnicity as well. The Wolverine is set in Asia. We'll see what happens with the next films including Deadpool. Heck, I still think it's disappointing that Piotr Rasputin (Collossus) wasn't portrayed as Russian in X2/3.
But out of all the super hero films, Xmen is really the only one that can play around with casting changes. Green Latern could have done something, but they chose a fail IMO by going with Hal Jordan. There is also the *slim* chance of us someday getting a Captain America prequel that addresses the original Captain America who was in fact African American. That would be pretty taboo, though.
Hopefully Black Panther will play a role in the upcoming Avengers film.
The biggest problem with the Xmen films is that they've never actually stopped and had any meaningful dialog about anything. It's been all about "Do you know what happens to a Toad when it's struck by lightning?"
This film actually made me *believe* in grand manifestations of mutation. It even brought back some notions of the original Star Wars films. Extremely cool stuff.
**SPOILER**
A couple of things I think people are going to have issue with are:
1) How was Professor X walking at the end of Wolverine Origins? My thought is that it was a mental projection and that Prof X was actually seated inside the plane. 1.2) How was he walking at the beginning of X3 which was 20 years after First Class? Not sure how this one works on any level.
2) The diamond girl in Wolverine Origins? Apparently was not Emma Frost, just a girl with a similar mutation.
3) Scott Summers is Alex Summers's older brother, so why was he near Alex's age when a much older professor Xavier scooped him up? I'm going to go with filmmaker liberty on this one. It's possible that Patrick Stewart is only supposed to be a few years older at the end of Wolverine Origins -- possibly having gone bald from using the Cerebro system?
4) Why are Magento and Prof X together when they recruit Jean Grey at the beginning of X3? Most of the comic readers know that Magento actually came back to the school for a time to teach, so I'm assuming that happened during his stint working once again with the Xmen.
5) In X1 Prof X tells Wolverine that he met Magneto when he was 17. This is a pretty glaring inaccuracy and leaves us with only one possible scenario to abide continuity, which would be -- Why did Professor X lie to Wolverine? And boy, that's a stretch...
In the end I don't mind liberties in the transition from comic to screen, so long as within the films' own continuity things stay consistent.
Regardless, this film wasn't even in the same hemisphere as the first three Xmen films. Completely loved it.
However I do agree that it was in pretty poor taste to kill of the token black guy and then have the only other brown-skinned person go over to the "bad" side. But I think there's a couple things happening here, A) The early Xmen are a product of their time. All of them were white until Storm came around in the 80s. B) The good guys needed Banshee for the plot, but they also wanted a flying battle. Angel was really the only option.
In the end Beast had to be white, Havok had to be white, Mystique had to be white, Prof X, Magneto and on down the line. I think it would have been interesting to have Moira be a different race (especially since this person obviously isn't the Moira MacTaggert in X3 because that person is a doctor and also scottish). Darwin (or some character) needed to die in order to up the stakes. The only other option would have been Havok, but I'm assuming they might want that character for some future dealings potentially dealing with Cyclops?
It's tough because when I went to see First Class about 70% of the audience wasn't caucasian, and you could feel a sort of collective sigh when Angel crossed over and then again after Darwin bit it.
It'll be interesting to see if more people talk about this aspect of the film. The problem is that the source material was birthed in the 60s, and while it's taken some strides forward in terms of nationalities, the amount of African American Xmen is still pretty limited (Storm, Bishop, Spyke, Maggot, Monet and a few others make up the short list). Most people hope that Apocalypse will be played by a mixed race person (ala Dwayne Johnson); and for that matter, Sinister could be cast as any ethnicity as well. The Wolverine is set in Asia. We'll see what happens with the next films including Deadpool. Heck, I still think it's disappointing that Piotr Rasputin (Collossus) wasn't portrayed as Russian in X2/3.
But out of all the super hero films, Xmen is really the only one that can play around with casting changes. Green Latern could have done something, but they chose a fail IMO by going with Hal Jordan. There is also the *slim* chance of us someday getting a Captain America prequel that addresses the original Captain America who was in fact African American. That would be pretty taboo, though.
Hopefully Black Panther will play a role in the upcoming Avengers film.
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WildTrackDave
Well-known member
To be honest, I thought it was good, but no where near as great as, say, The Dark Knight. I'd say it wasn't as good as X2, and it was about par with the first X-Men.
***SPOILER***
My biggest problem was that it felt like they tried to cram so much story into the film that everything felt so rushed and a lot of the character's decisions were unmotivated.
1) Hank McCoy was way too eager to take his experimental vaccine to make himself more "normal". Really the only thing abnormal about him were his feet. His feet?? Which he was somehow still able to fit into regular shoes and hide for however long from the CIA. It wasn't THAT critical to justify his urgency for normalcy.
2) The world's decision to declare war on the mutants at the end seemed to have come out of nowhere. Especially considering they had JUST witnessed them averted a world war. I understand their fear that the mutants are too powerful and would eventually decide destroy them and take over the world, or something. But if that's the case, wouldn't immediately declaring war on them be the opposite of what you're going for?
3) On the flip side, Magneto's decision to declare war on the human's seemed to have come from left field too. The human's as a collective hadn't really wronged him personally in any way as far as I can remember, aside from the stuff I talked about in point 2.
4) Mystique obviously had feelings for Prof X, but considering they were best friends (completely plutonic, for Charles at least) and essentially brother and sister for the past 15+ years, he seemed completely justified to politely turn down her advances and avert his eyes in disgust when she appeared in front of him naked. Which made her decision to join Magneto's brotherhood (someone she virtually just met vs. her lifelong best friend) pretty unmotivated.
I'm not saying that these decisions weren't necessary and absolutely motivated, but they didn't come across that way in the movie. In my opinion, they should have split the movie into two separate films to give it ample time to breathe and develop naturally.
Rogue's motivation to become normal in the first two X-Men films and her decision to get the cure in X3 was way more believable to me because I connected with her character and her plight much more than I did with any of the characters in this film.
***SPOILER***
This isn't all to say I didn't thoroughly enjoy the film. I thought The Dark Knight, and heck even Kick-Ass, were better.
***SPOILER***
My biggest problem was that it felt like they tried to cram so much story into the film that everything felt so rushed and a lot of the character's decisions were unmotivated.
1) Hank McCoy was way too eager to take his experimental vaccine to make himself more "normal". Really the only thing abnormal about him were his feet. His feet?? Which he was somehow still able to fit into regular shoes and hide for however long from the CIA. It wasn't THAT critical to justify his urgency for normalcy.
2) The world's decision to declare war on the mutants at the end seemed to have come out of nowhere. Especially considering they had JUST witnessed them averted a world war. I understand their fear that the mutants are too powerful and would eventually decide destroy them and take over the world, or something. But if that's the case, wouldn't immediately declaring war on them be the opposite of what you're going for?
3) On the flip side, Magneto's decision to declare war on the human's seemed to have come from left field too. The human's as a collective hadn't really wronged him personally in any way as far as I can remember, aside from the stuff I talked about in point 2.
4) Mystique obviously had feelings for Prof X, but considering they were best friends (completely plutonic, for Charles at least) and essentially brother and sister for the past 15+ years, he seemed completely justified to politely turn down her advances and avert his eyes in disgust when she appeared in front of him naked. Which made her decision to join Magneto's brotherhood (someone she virtually just met vs. her lifelong best friend) pretty unmotivated.
I'm not saying that these decisions weren't necessary and absolutely motivated, but they didn't come across that way in the movie. In my opinion, they should have split the movie into two separate films to give it ample time to breathe and develop naturally.
Rogue's motivation to become normal in the first two X-Men films and her decision to get the cure in X3 was way more believable to me because I connected with her character and her plight much more than I did with any of the characters in this film.
***SPOILER***
This isn't all to say I didn't thoroughly enjoy the film. I thought The Dark Knight, and heck even Kick-Ass, were better.
The best thing in the movie for me was "Magneto : Nazi hunter". I wish they had made that movie. Michael Fassbender in James Bond mode in a 60's setting was awesome.
Spoiler!!!
I was suprised Magneto went bad at the end of this movie, I thought it would have happened at the end of the (possible) third X-Men First Class movie.
Spoiler!!!
I was suprised Magneto went bad at the end of this movie, I thought it would have happened at the end of the (possible) third X-Men First Class movie.
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Agreed. Excelent actor, great performance, that part of the movie was the most interesting part of the film. SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
That moment at the argentinian bar was "Munich" level intense! In fact, Michael Fassbender was so good in this film that the only actor remotedly capable of being in the same league was the actor portraying Xavier (James Mcavoy). The rest of the cast, including the main villain, were nowhere of the level of those 2. Emma Frost was poorly cast, IMO. The rest of the X'es were a stereotypical compilation of ethnicities and teenagers clichés with no chance to develop, character wise. The closest we have of character development was with Mistique, but even there, a bit underdeveloped and forced.
As for the plot, it was ok, definitely the better of the X-Men films, but not at the level of Dark Knight. The stereotypical portrayal of Russians was too cartoony vs the excellent Nazi hunter sequence. I would love to see a film only following Magneto with Michael Fassbender- but without the comic book costume. It just doesn't make sense. In the end, when he shows up with that costume, it just feels completely out of place.
Still, an enjoyable experience and one of the better comic book adaptations. A bit unbalanced for the sake of fan service and maintaining a PG rating, which is a shame since the -and sorry to repeat myself- the opening minutes and the nazi hunter sequence really showed how the X-Men universe and characters could really work in a more serious piece of cinema, like Dark Knight was.
Jawa Ex Machina
Veteran
*** spoiler post***
I had a great time at the movie, but the real problems didn't show up until the third act. That was absolutely the part that most badly needed a few re-writes.
It's like, this is a plot-driven film, right? But every single important decision in the third act were character driven, not plot driven. Magneto didn't turn bad because the story made him that way, he turned bad because his character was bad all along. Mystique didn't go with Magneto because the circumstances made her choose to do so, she went with him because she was with him in the other x-men films (and obviously so she could become friends with Nightcrawler's dad in the sequel). Etc.
Also, the third act had some pretty horrific dialogue. "We're like G-men only without the G." "No, you're X-Men." (Xavier nods knowingly).
I mean, I'd still give the film 4/5 because it was always entertaining despite being completely predictable though. Best example of this was when Xavier tells them "We're going to have to train" and I turned to my girlfriend and whispered as a joke that they're going to need a montage for that, and that's exactly what happened. A training montage.
It's a great and fun movie, and Kevin Bacon was a brilliant casting choice, but that third act really needed some work.
I had a great time at the movie, but the real problems didn't show up until the third act. That was absolutely the part that most badly needed a few re-writes.
It's like, this is a plot-driven film, right? But every single important decision in the third act were character driven, not plot driven. Magneto didn't turn bad because the story made him that way, he turned bad because his character was bad all along. Mystique didn't go with Magneto because the circumstances made her choose to do so, she went with him because she was with him in the other x-men films (and obviously so she could become friends with Nightcrawler's dad in the sequel). Etc.
Also, the third act had some pretty horrific dialogue. "We're like G-men only without the G." "No, you're X-Men." (Xavier nods knowingly).
I mean, I'd still give the film 4/5 because it was always entertaining despite being completely predictable though. Best example of this was when Xavier tells them "We're going to have to train" and I turned to my girlfriend and whispered as a joke that they're going to need a montage for that, and that's exactly what happened. A training montage.
It's a great and fun movie, and Kevin Bacon was a brilliant casting choice, but that third act really needed some work.
Brian_Rice
Carbonite Member
I'm not entirely sure where the 3rd act begins. I'm assuming it's after the attack on the base, right? To me that was one of the many highlights of the film, only second to Magneto's earlier confrontation in the bar.
I'd agree that after the attack on the base it felt more predictable, but I enjoyed how they handled the obligatory training montage.
To someone else's post I'd agree that the Russians felt a little like the communist regime in Watchmen (cartoony), but because it's a comic book movie I took it with a grain of salt. The CIA and circle "war room" on the US side was equally suspect IMO. The whole, "Raise your hand if you're cool with nuking them" seemed unlikely.
Again, to me, the only real issues with the film was its continuity. But it's kind of funny that there's only one continuity issue with First Class vs X1/2, and yet there are many continuity issues with FS vs X3/Origins. It's almost as if Singer decided to off-handedly partially ignore the films he didn't have a role in.
Jawa Ex Machina
Veteran
The separate Wolverine Origins film is meant to be ignored. Aronofsky's Wolverine film would have ignored it as well according to interviews.
Also, I never once believed the film took place in the 60's because nobody smoked indoors. Not once.
Also, I never once believed the film took place in the 60's because nobody smoked indoors. Not once.
Ian-T
Veteran
Jawa Ex Machina
Veteran
I'm actually serious. I wasn't born in the 60's, but I remember the 80's vividly and people smoked everywhere. Cars, airplanes, movie theaters, restaurants, their homes, business meetings...
Back then, the ashtrays and no-smoking signs on airplanes served a function.
It's a superhero movie? I don't even remember seeing anyone smoking at all in the movie. Less I missed it?
Brian_Rice
Carbonite Member
I didn't read anywhere that Origins was meant to be ignored. Deadpool will obviously take place in the Xmen universe and will be a direct result of the Origins film. Since Deadpool doesn't have much of a rogue's gallery we'll probably end up seeing sub-level Xmen characters in that film.
And as for Aronofsky's interpretation, who knows if that was just his position or the position of the studio. He said it wasn't going to be a sequel to Wolverine: Origins, but if you look at one of the endings of Origins, he's in the bar in Japan -- which is where The Wolverine takes place.
I think there's an extremely strong chance that Yuriko makes an appearance (or even plays a major role in The Wolverine) and it will be brought back to when he kills Yuriko in X3 -- bringing another level of importance to that fight.
Again, though, with the exception of the continuity issue between X1 and FS where professor X says he met Magneto when he was 17, every other continuity issue can be resolved. I could easily see a mutant like Josh Foley curing Xavier and then another mutant villain recognizing that as a major fear of Xavier's and then crushing his legs (Xavier has been healed and re-injured more times than Jean Grey has died and come back to life).
What about the continuity that Havoc is supposed to be Scott's little brother, but it's set in the 60's and the other movies are years afterward?
Or, that they supposedly cameo'd storm but it's still in the 60's?
They're pretty much creating their own timeline with the movies, less they have to reboot the entire feature filmfranchise.
Or, that they supposedly cameo'd storm but it's still in the 60's?
They're pretty much creating their own timeline with the movies, less they have to reboot the entire feature filmfranchise.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
As a child of the 70's I totally agree. Even supermarkets had ashtrays, and some people actually smoked while working...
Yeah, it's a superhero movie....but some of the guys in the war rooms WOULD have been smoking for sure. It's a small thing, but to give a feel of a period small things can be important. Like a western where the clothes are sqeaky clean....it's just off.
vcassel
Veteran
Continuity issues in a series of comic book movies? You guys read comics, right? It's par for the course. In fact, this is rather subtle in comparison to the huge rifts in continuity in the 'X' titles. Someday try reading up on the relation between Magneto, Xorn, and The Collective and try to keep your head from exploding. Different creators come on board and flub things around to fit their vision all the time.
X-Men Origins: Wolverine being sidestepped in continuity sounds about right as most of the things that happen in the Wolverine comic are never mentioned again and have little to no bearing on the other 'X' titles.
X-Men Origins: Wolverine being sidestepped in continuity sounds about right as most of the things that happen in the Wolverine comic are never mentioned again and have little to no bearing on the other 'X' titles.
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