WWII Short Redux - with a bit of insight for good measure!

Owen

Owen

Photoshop Savant
This is a bit of a weird post, as I am going to share footage with you, but also try to relate a bit of a lesson learned that hopefully a few of you will appreciate and can benefit from. Most of that preaching comes AFTER the link to the movie, so if you just want to see the clips, stop reading after the link. Fair warning!

After riding along with some re-enactors during a tactical exercise (where they play WWII war games) I have re-edited "Battaglia" and entered it into a competition. The film is basically the same, except 2 minutes shorter (and better for it) and now actually includes :kali: Nazis.

The original 7 minute version was made in two days for last Fall's Amazon/Tribeca film festival. It placed in the top five and screened in New York. Free trip, fun stuff, even though I missed that $50,000 prize by "this much."

Anyhoo, I'm looking to recoup some of that $700 investment so I entered it into the Bogen competition. Might as well share the film with all of you while I have access to the free bandwidth! That said, I give you "BATTAGLIA"

http://www.studentfilmmakers.com/bogenimaging/article_981.shtml

There. That's the url. Allow me to ramble on a bit while it loads.

It's funny that one piece of feedback on the above site commented that I should use a fast shutter (did that) and the magic bullet "curahee" effect (did that). I consider those things kind of lame cop-outs, but it was fun nonetheless, and helps set the tone of something intended for a tiny internet screen. I often get accused of ripping off "Private Ryan" and "Band of Bros." Guilty as charged!

Historical stuff like this opens a can of worms, and while a lot was beyond my control, those ARE REAL M1 Garands and BARs and the sound effects ARE from REAL M1 Garands and BARs. Criticism of all types is welcome, but I can't tell you how many comments I've gotten to the tune of "next time get authentic period guns and sounds!" Not sure how much more authentic it gets. And those aren't "children on a pic-nic"... they are Italian civilians caught up in a sudden battle. Or rather, that's what I should have taken time to clarify them being.

All that to say, what have I learned? No matter what you do, be it for theatrical release or for a DVXUser festival, do it to your HIGHEST standards. The viewer does not (and should not) care how long it took you or how little cash you spent on it. You never know just how many times you might end up showing some little short film you made that you never thought would see the light of day beyond a random online contest.

I ended up in a New York screening room with industry big-wigs watching this thing, when I have MUCH better stuff sitting at home that I actually spent time. money, blood, sweat, and tears on. None of that mattered at the screening, and there certainly wasn't an opportunity to put things in perspective. I'm always making excuses for this little video -- and no one wants to sit through a million excuses and then be expected to enjoy a film.

We now have the means to acquire affordable equipment that allows us to do the same thing Hollywood does, however we must be ready to "take the heat" and expect viewers to pick everything apart and judge even the tiniest details. There was a time when "well it's an indy, you have to forgive it for such and such" was a phrase that the audience might use to make excuses for an okay film. Not anymore. The lines are blurring, and while that is a good thing, it is going to keep us on our toes more than we might expect.

Win or lose, valuable lesson learned on this production.
 
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I agree, great stuff! I know its hard to make a war piece...hats off to you.

Wish I would have known about that contest!

Hodges
 
"The viewer does not (and should not) care how long it took you or how little cash you spent on it"

True. But anyone scouting talent does, especially if you made $5,000 look like $500,000. There were WWII pics someone posted last year (this may or may not have been you).
One of the things I commented on was production design/set dressing. Dirt is free, you should have smeared some on these guys. Also, insignia, markings, and a myriad of other details would have rounded out the "authenticity"
As for someone commenting on the gunfire not being authentic, screw that.
90% of the viewing public wouldn't be able to tell whether submachine gun fire is coming from a Sten or Thompson. Nor would they give a s*&#
What they WILL notice is the set dressing if it's as off as it is.
The high shutter stuff is fine, but using it for supposedly "calm" scenes i.e. the soldier shaving, etc...these should have been shot at a more normal shutter speed, building up to the attack and then having it kick in to convey the frenetic nature of combat.
A big Kudos however for putting in the time and completing something.
You will do well.
:costumed-smiley-047
 
Hodges said:
Wish I would have known about that contest!
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I read about it in the Cafe. That place is good for somethin'!

mstudios78 said:
Dude GOOD piece of art man!!
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Hey thanks!

mstudios78 said:
Did you also do the Sugar Creek Gang movie?
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Yep...

PANA-MAN said:
True. But anyone scouting talent does, especially if you made $5,000 look like $500,000.
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Good point. It also helps when seeking investors.

PANA-MAN said:
There were WWII pics someone posted last year (this may or may not have been you).
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Yeah -- back when I wasn't allowed to post the actual vid (competition rules). Your observations have not been lost on me -- the devil is in the details! I have a larger WWII project coming up and hope to score more authenticity points.
 
I just have one question. Is it just me or shouldn't the little gang of picnickers have run away screaming when the gunfire first began?

Otherwise, I thought the whole battle scene was very well done. I was really impressed with the entire piece, great job.
 
Looked great, nice colors, editing and camera work. Only some of the stuff made me a bit confused, nazis with an american .30cal? Of course only gun-geeks like me would react to that...

But I liked it nonetheless, Good Work!
 
There will always be little things noticed until we have the million dollar budgets the big boys do, and even most of those aren't perfect. Most of us work with friends and less experienced crews which makes it more of a challenge for us, and alot more rewarding when we pull off something great. I'm working on a WWII piece myself and I can't tell you how many "should have's" we thought of afterwards. I think you did a great job and definitely deserve the placement that you got. Best of luck to you.
-Steve
 
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MiniMan said:
Looked great, nice colors, editing and camera work. Only some of the stuff made me a bit confused, nazis with an american .30cal? Of course only gun-geeks like me would react to that...

But I liked it nonetheless, Good Work!
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You are GOOD. :beer: I cheated the stuff with the .30cal. It was an American half-track, but I needed the footage so I motion tracked Nazi symbols onto the side of the turret and vehicle.
 
Very Nice Work.
The only suggestion I would make is, and mabey its too late now, to ease in and out of the memorial scenes a bit slower. The transition seemed a bit jumpy due to the change from action scene to talking scene. It kind of pulls a person out of the story.
I enjoyed it. Good lighting. Good colour and contrast.
 
nice work, visually it looked great. I've been working on a script that I might end up shooting? and it has some ww2 footage in it, Owen how did you locate the re-enactment group that you shot with..? I was thinking that this would probably be the easier way also of filming those scenes.
 
First, I have to say that the shooting and editing were really well done. The look of it was incredible, and to get the actors and equipment together like that is an accomplishment to be sure.

My only problem was that it needed more nazi's. What I mean is, I would have liked to have seen some of the Germans sneaking up on the camp- cut to man shaving. Another german raises his rifle in a concealed position- cut to children in the grass.
There was a lot of gunfire and we didn't see where it came from. It would have perhaps raised the level of tension in the film to show the attackers getting nto position before the shooting started, juxtaposed with the Us guys with their guard down.

As another person stated, the children didn't seem to react until a while after the shooting started.

I hate to even say anything, because I's a nice piece of work.
Well done.

Jeff Patnaude
 
RyanT said:
I just have one question. Is it just me or shouldn't the little gang of picnickers have run away screaming when the gunfire first began?
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Naw- I got that they were refugees. Maybe some suitcases or a donkey cart with stuff in it would have sold the shot better. Even just a G.I. bringing them some water or something.
(wasn't there a thread some time ago about how pianos seem to show up in the middle of war movies?)

Who were the recreators? Local to Atlanta? Where was the shoot location? Again- really nice work. :kali:


jeff
patnaude
 
Owen said:
You are GOOD. :beer: I cheated the stuff with the .30cal. It was an American half-track, but I needed the footage so I motion tracked Nazi symbols onto the side of the turret and vehicle.
Click to expand...

Ah, you are GOOD too :beer: the nazi symbols didn't stand out to me as motion tracked at all, great work:)
 
The re-enactors were local to Atlanta.

Shoot location for vehicle stuff (half-track, motorcycle) and most soldiers was a National Guard base in North Georgia. Generally these folks get together for war games that are closed to the public. I hooked up with contacts by attending a local parade for Veterans where some of them were participating. By getting in good with one of them I was able to ride-along during their next tactical (war game). That meant I could be a casual observer with a camera, and also meant that I sort of had to creatively integrate any footage I was able to capture. (so, sadly, no way to set up a shot or blocking with the main actors).

Shoot location for the jeep and group of soldiers and tents was south of Atlanta. Most of those people were friends of friends who were willing to put on clothes that I begged a local Army Surplus shop to let me rent (those types of places don't generally enjoy renting... seems that when something leaves the shop they prefer to never see it again!)

All participants appearing in the short are split into three (hopefully) undetectable groups, so many of them never saw or met each other, but were instead piece-mealed into a final cut of some sort. For example, the final "kill shot" that puts an end to our intrepid heroes was just a random piece of footage I picked up at the tactical, several weeks AFTER shooting the guys standing there waiting to die. We knew that SOMETHING would kill them, but just had to hope that whatever that something was would end up being shot later on.

I've seen some other threads (and gotten some e-mails) from people with projects involving WWI & WWII era stuff, and I can't imagine trying to do it WITHOUT the help of a local re-enacment group. Start with Google and look for some sort of even in your area. Also ask around at local military museums (many military bases have small museums). Originally I was going to shoot in a museum on a large Army base, and had the script approved by the Army film dept. in LA (didn't even know they had one). The location was too far away for my actors, so I scrubbed it, but it is nice to know that they Army is willing and easy to work with.

The re-enactors tend to have events every month or two, and often do public exhibitions to show off their gear. Hooking up with a cooperative group can make your project look like it cost about ten times what you spent!

...and thanks for all the feedback... much appreciated!
 
Nice job. I don't think most people know what a machine gun sounds like, only
what they hear in the movies.

Charli
 
Owen said:
This is a bit of a weird post, as I am going to share footage with you, but also try to relate a bit of a lesson learned that hopefully a few of you will appreciate and can benefit from. Most of that preaching comes AFTER the link to the movie, so if you just want to see the clips, stop reading after the link. Fair warning!

After riding along with some re-enactors during a tactical exercise (where they play WWII war games) I have re-edited "Battaglia" and entered it into a competition. The film is basically the same, except 2 minutes shorter (and better for it) and now actually includes :kali: Nazis.

The original 7 minute version was made in two days for last Fall's Amazon/Tribeca film festival. It placed in the top five and screened in New York. Free trip, fun stuff, even though I missed that $50,000 prize by "this much."

Anyhoo, I'm looking to recoup some of that $700 investment so I entered it into the Bogen competition. Might as well share the film with all of you while I have access to the free bandwidth! That said, I give you "BATTAGLIA"

http://www.studentfilmmakers.com/bogenimaging/article_981.shtml

There. That's the url. Allow me to ramble on a bit while it loads.

It's funny that one piece of feedback on the above site commented that I should use a fast shutter (did that) and the magic bullet "curahee" effect (did that). I consider those things kind of lame cop-outs, but it was fun nonetheless, and helps set the tone of something intended for a tiny internet screen. I often get accused of ripping off "Private Ryan" and "Band of Bros." Guilty as charged!

Historical stuff like this opens a can of worms, and while a lot was beyond my control, those ARE REAL M1 Garands and BARs and the sound effects ARE from REAL M1 Garands and BARs. Criticism of all types is welcome, but I can't tell you how many comments I've gotten to the tune of "next time get authentic period guns and sounds!" Not sure how much more authentic it gets. And those aren't "children on a pic-nic"... they are Italian civilians caught up in a sudden battle. Or rather, that's what I should have taken time to clarify them being.

All that to say, what have I learned? No matter what you do, be it for theatrical release or for a DVXUser festival, do it to your HIGHEST standards. The viewer does not (and should not) care how long it took you or how little cash you spent on it. You never know just how many times you might end up showing some little short film you made that you never thought would see the light of day beyond a random online contest.

I ended up in a New York screening room with industry big-wigs watching this thing, when I have MUCH better stuff sitting at home that I actually spent time. money, blood, sweat, and tears on. None of that mattered at the screening, and there certainly wasn't an opportunity to put things in perspective. I'm always making excuses for this little video -- and no one wants to sit through a million excuses and then be expected to enjoy a film.

We now have the means to acquire affordable equipment that allows us to do the same thing Hollywood does, however we must be ready to "take the heat" and expect viewers to pick everything apart and judge even the tiniest details. There was a time when "well it's an indy, you have to forgive it for such and such" was a phrase that the audience might use to make excuses for an okay film. Not anymore. The lines are blurring, and while that is a good thing, it is going to keep us on our toes more than we might expect.

Win or lose, valuable lesson learned on this production.
Click to expand...

Owen, I respect your post, and I almost love it. Your statements are absolutely true, especially the part about doing something your BEST. No excuses, no apologies... no matter how small it is; you're a trooper, and your film proves it.

Not only that, you're from Atlanta, GA. I know how hard it is to get stuff done in Georgia... that's why I moved to California. You, sir, have my best wishes in all that you do and I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Congrats on a job well done.
 
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