Would their be a huge difference in quality between these two capture ideas?

Mike Krumlauf

Mike Krumlauf

Award Winning Filmmaker
So as most of you know, I work with a panavised HDW-F900 from 2006 that was retired by panavision and sold on ebay. Through many tests I have found that the superior quality in footage in terms of signal to noise ratio, color, and detail is shooting HDCAM as intended and digitizing that for post (using the camera as it was made). I have been digitizing the HDCAM material via the Miranda DVC800 box on the back of the camera which feeds into an AJA Ki Pro recorder and takes the HDCAM material and converts it to Apple ProRes422(HQ). I am looking at ditching the Ki Pro and getting an HDCAM VTR Deck for my mac pro and I am interested in if there would be an image quality difference doing things the old fashion way via a tape deck hooked into a mac via HD SDI?
 
I can’t tell you if there is or not, but I would definetly recommend that you stop using the camera for playback as soon as possible. They’re not designed for that purpose and you’re just adding wear and tear on an already old camera.
 
Run&Gun said:
I can’t tell you if there is or not, but I would definetly recommend that you stop using the camera for playback as soon as possible. They’re not designed for that purpose and you’re just adding wear and tear on an already old camera.
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+1
Tape based cameras are not designed to be used for playback.
 
Doug Jensen said:
+1
Tape based cameras are not designed to be used for playback.
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I was told otherwise via old co workers at VER. If its normal playback and rewinding after stopping, not scrubbing it will be fine. I know its a different tape format but i spent years recording, playing back and taping over Mini DV tapes. I agree in general it would be great to just throw down money on a deck but im not at that point yet so I have to make do.. its not the end of the world for basic playback.. i think ill survive lol

I should add that i spent 3 years with a tape varicam and the heads never broke down.. i.e WW3 did not happen in my camera. if DVCPRO HD tape stock and camera can last three years with basic playback then an F900 can make it as well.. i understand your concerns but ive had enough experience around tape cameras (about 20 years to be exact) where only once did i encounter a tape head problem and it was a second hand Canon XL1s in 2009.
 
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I need to also mention that if it was that serious of a problem, tape based cameras would not have a VTR function in them with rewind, fast forward, etc. A tape playing back at normal speed is not a serious threat to a camera. again, i would understand if you were basically DJing the tape like people do on decks scrubbing back and forth, but im not working the VTR like that. Im rewinding, letting it stop, playing the material back so i can digitize, and then ejecting the tape.. ive been doing this for decades on multiple tape formats and i have NEVER once broken a camera in the process. But again, I do need to thank you for looking out. I was simply asking if a Sony HDCAM Deck -> SDI -> MAC PRO encodes the tape's material at a different quality than via the Camera VTR -> Miranda DVC800 SDI method?? I dont remember ever seeing a Sony HDCAM render codec in the early 00s so I assume that I would still have to encode to prores through final cut or premiere?
 
Mike Krumlauf said:
I need to also mention that if it was that serious of a problem, tape based cameras would not have a VTR function in them with rewind, fast forward, etc. A tape playing back at normal speed is not a serious threat to a camera. [/B]
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Not true. Heads, pinch rollers, capstans, etc. all have limited life-spans. The playback functions on high-end cameras like Betacam, HDCAM, etc. were intended for checking tape only when necessary. Could they be used for more than that in an emergency, sure, but it was always assumed that people using such gear would have proper playback decks and they certainly wouldn't want to be putting wear and tear on the camera for non-shooting uses. If your experience is different, keep right on doing what you're doing because it makes no difference to me either way. But the fact remains that playback for capture or digitizing is not advised and your're wasting your camera on it.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Not true. Heads, pinch rollers, capstans, etc. all have limited life-spans. The playback functions on high-end cameras like Betacam, HDCAM, etc. were intended for checking tape only when necessary. Could they be used for more than that in an emergency, sure, but it was always assumed that people using such gear would have proper playback decks and they certainly wouldn't want to be putting wear and tear on the camera for non-shooting uses. If your experience is different, keep right on doing what you're doing because it makes no difference to me either way. But the fact remains that playback for capture or digitizing is not advised and your're wasting your camera on it.
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I'm not wasting anything. This propaganda dribble about how to use the VTR in a camera is ridiculous and is seriously throwing this conversation off my intended question. VTR's are not these fragile porclian dolls you speak of. Every professional tape based camera I have owned and worked on both in personal and paid for projects, i have always operated this way. The SDX900, HDC27, F900, HDX900 (rented mind you), not one have I ever owned a proper deck.. I have always relied on HD SDI capture from the camera given the budget. I get lots of people did not consider Mini DV as a professional medium (thats a whole nother debate for another time) but over 20+ of the 50 cameras i've owned were DV tape based.. always capturing from the firewire, playing the tapes back.. never could afford a Mini DV Deck for my computer. Never, ever, EVER in the 20 years of working have I had a tape based camera loose its VTR for any reason. As I said before, I only came into contact with a bad VTR purchasing a used Canon XL1s with problems that I had to send in to get fixed. I'm writing this passionate response only because you stated what you said as.. "FACT".. this is where I debate you. For those of us on a budget and those of us with the technical understanding of how far we can push our gear within our budget, then it is said, from my experience, that with care, you can playback video tape on a camera for viewing or digitizing without any issues. My VTR is in fine shape on the Panavision camera.. as it was on my varicam.. and my sdx.. and my dv cameras... So, in the world of you being able to afford a proper deck in your past work, i can understand the arrogance of looking at me like some idiot but that I am not and I will not have you make others on DVXuser believe that they can not use a camera like the HDW-F900 without invested hundreds more in a second hand deck as well.. i'm simply looking into one for a more streamlined way to get my footage into my mac, instead of going through a tapeless capture device, that is all.
 
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Post deleted to calm the waters. Take it easy Mike, and do what you think is best.
 
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