Would a Fresnel Tungsten Kit Lighting create IR problems?

L

Lucere

Member
I'm going to shoot a project with my EX1 that will be in color and have a noir-like feel - working with shadows as much as light, and was advised to purchase a lighting kit such as this:

http://www.filmtools.com/arsofivkit57.html

I'm just beginning to learn to work with shaping shadows and light and am wondering if the fact that these lights are Tungsten, will that create IR contamination problems? If so are there alternative types of Fresnel lights that I should look into instead? I'd rather avoid using any of the IR filters. Thanks!
 
Yes, any light produced from a heat source is going to have the potential to introduced the IR contamination problem. The extent will depend on many things including the fabrics in your image but for the low cost, you might as well have a T1 filter handy.
 
The potential for IR is there but with ARRI it is highly unlikely, but as Guy says "keep a filter handy". It can't hurt and you may get IR from other sources.
 
Thanks! I do have the T1, but would prefer to avoid using it. The glass over glass thing :) But just wanted to be sure this would be a good Lighting Kit investment for the EX1. According to you guys it seems it would as long as I avoid the types of fabrics that are problematic...?
 
An Arri kit is the way to go. But the only light in that kit that will produce a lot of controllable shadow is the 650, with the 300 less useful there. The 150's are suitable for accenting and individual backlighting and are handy when space is limited. The 1K is an open face, best with the Chimera. I have a 4x650 set and find that is the most versatile way to go by switching lamps, adding scrims, etc. They do heat up the room though.

I can't help you with the EX1's IR issue, but am wondering why careful manual white balance doesn't solve it for all practical purposes. And it should be an easy color correction in post if needed anyway.
 
BVX said:
I can't help you with the EX1's IR issue, but am wondering why careful manual white balance doesn't solve it for all practical purposes. And it should be an easy color correction in post if needed anyway.
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You obviously have never owned or worked enough with an EX1/3, RED, F23, etc. camera before.
 
No I haven't. Please enlighten me, I am considering buying the EX3 or newer model. Is the problem intermittent or variable or what exactly?
 
BVX said:
No I haven't. Please enlighten me, I am considering buying the EX3 or newer model. Is the problem intermittent or variable or what exactly?
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The problem is well understood, well documented, and easily solveable. Just a matter of whether you will need to use a filter or not. So keep one handy, and you'll be just fine.
 
I'll definitely keep a filter handy (I've read all the posts I could find over the past year or so), but if I understand the IR issue correctly - as long as I'm careful as to which types of fabrics the actors wear, fabrics used for curtains, sofas, bags, etc... I just want to double check before I go ahead and purchase this kit - Will this provide a fantastic, uncontaminated light source for the EX1? Or is there a better choice out there in a comparable price range? Thanks again!
 
Lucere said:
Will this provide a fantastic, uncontaminated light source for the EX1?
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NO. No tungsten light will.

Tungsten lights spew tons of infrared out. If you want to use an IR-sensitive camera under tungsten lighting, you're going to have IR contamination. End of story. Doesn't matter if it's an Arri or Mole or Britek light -- tungsten light sources generate a lot of infrared.

If you have fabrics that reflect infrared, then you'll see the problems in your footage.

The EX1 is sensitive to infrared. Tungsten lights produce lots of infrared. Put the two together, an dthe responsibility is on you to make sure that you're getting clean images.
 
Thanks Barry and thanks everyone for your help so far! This is hefty investment for me and I appreciate all of your help before I finalize my decision and purchase tomorrow.

Barry, we met at NAB last year and as you know from my other posts, I've been anxiously waiting for your Lighting DVD to help expand my knowledge of lights/lighting...but I'm ready to shoot a horror/thriller zero-budge feature very soon and need to buy lights now. When you say - "If you want to use an IR-sensitive camera under tungsten lighting, you're going to have IR contamination." I just want to be fully clear about this matter: it's pretty much fabrics only, correct? These lights won't cause contamination on people's flesh, household walls, wooden furniture, cars, bathroom tile, etc... as long as I keep such fabrics clear of my shoot all together I shouldn't have any contamination issues? Or will these lights give me an overall issue on other subjects? If it will give me an issue with other subjects is it so much lesser than synthetic fabrics that it would never be noticed, or will it end up being an issue all around? I don't think any of the IR filters out there are as clean as the camera's lens, so I'd prefer to avoid a filter and handle this issue in other ways if possible.

I definitely need control over the lighting and want to use a bit of expressionistic influence and this kit is at the peak of what I can afford. Is there something else out there that I should look into, or will this work out as long as I steer clear of the types of fabrics cited in all of the posts regarding this issue?

Thanks again!
 
Tungsten lights emit a lot of IR. Infrared is basically heat, and a tungsten light expends 80% of its power consumption as heat, and 20% as light. There's a lot of IR.

That said, people have been using tungsten light with these cameras for years. It is usually just fine. When there's an issue, it's pretty much always due to some synthetic fabric that doesn't show up as black. So don't worry about it, other than to keep an eye on your color reproduction to make sure it's accurate. If you're shooting a no-budget film, you may find it a lot easier to slap an IR filter in place and shoot, than it will be to change wardrobe on an actor or re-dress a set with different fabrics, etc... and then there's the issue of "will anyone even notice?" I mean, if you're shooting a priest or cult leader and their black clothing is purple/brown, then yeah, people will notice. But if someone's carrying a black camera bag and it shows up a little brown-ish, that's probably not anything to even be concerned about.

In short, I doubt you're going to run into any problems. But you can avoid all problems if you get the infrared filter.
 
Again, appreciate your input everyone! And thanks Barry for that last very informative note! You've all been very helpful and have helped make me completely psyched about going ahead and getting this kit, today! :)
 
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