Working independently with a client after meeting them through a company

[Viddovation]

I don't think so, Viddovation...it sounds like this is a half-assed company that's barely surviving (or is a new startup that won't last very long). I don't think there'll be any long term repercussions out of this.

Good grief, people, just because it's called a "production company" doesn't mean that the community even knows who the hell that company (or the people who run it) are. Mostly likely, they'll damage their reputation with one or two small fry businesses and that'll be that.

Gary,

You're probably right. Absolutely. But there's a good lesson here none the less, that I think the OP is overlooking. This time he'll scrape by without too much damage, but, if he keeps handling clients this way, sooner or later it could catch up to him.

 

[Gary Huff]

If she had those guys on call already, why'd she have to rush you and your co-shooter into a job? She's small fry and she'll badmouth you to her friends at the hair salon who might have otherwise asked you to shoot their kid's birthday party for $100.

 

[Scott F]

Perhaps improbable

Oh, it's super probable. :grin:

Everything he laid out, the "troublesome information" has been covered to a T in this thread. Look, do I think they got this info from trolling DVXuser? Probably not, but you never know.

I don't use any identifying info here.

But you go as far as doing a blog where you sh*t talk clients. Even if you aren't naming names, people aren't imbeciles. It could get back to them. Again, I think it's rather funny, but I wouldn't go down that road personally. About 20 posts back, someone said you're free to live your life as you see fit. I agree, but I would heed some of the advice in this thread.

the vagueness of my discussion

This is about as UNvague of a thread as I've encountered 'round these parts. If you are any kind of player in your region, I would think people would figure out who you are.

 

[Gary Huff]

Is it okay to hook up with a girl that a friend of yours used to date?

It absolutely IS okay in the whole scheme of things. Different situations will have different elements of fallout related to that decision. As an adult, you weigh the cost of such fallout against the benefits of such an action and act accordingly.

 

[Rick Burnett]

I personally don't think your co-shooter should have given his card and said you'd do business with them if they closed their contact. If a were a production company and heard that, I would be upset by it. I think that point has been nailed home here. It's about ethics. You are not going to survive on that one client alone even if you had all the money for two shoots. When I contract through people, I accept from the beginning that it is ALWAYS through that production company unless they tell me otherwise. If the client tries to circumvent the middle man, I talk with the middle man. It's that simple.

Word of mouth goes so far it is not even funny. I NEVER realized how far it goes until I go out around the state of NC and people know who I am and I've NEVER talked with them before. It's scary.

 

[pulp]

Oh, it's super probable. :grin:

Everything he laid out, the "troublesome information" has been covered to a T in this thread. Look, do I think they got this info from trolling DVXuser? Probably not, but you never know.

Uh, I'm sorry, but no. I can call BS on this immediately, as they claimed we said she was "baiting and switching" (which makes no sense in this context), and that we told him to throw a fit about the "short notice fee" (which happened AFTER the shoot, and we had no idea about). I'm sorry, but even if the person, someone who has no camera knowledge or skill that knows approximately 4 videographers, had immediate access to this forum, that doesn't make sense.

But you go as far as doing a blog where you sh*t talk clients. Even if you aren't naming names, people aren't imbeciles. It could get back to them. Again, I think it's rather funny, but I wouldn't go down that road personally. About 20 posts back, someone said you're free to live your life as you see fit. I agree, but I would heed some of the advice in this thread.

I have never mentioned this woman on my blog. I might now. :grin: But I haven't prior.

As for other clients, that blog is mainly about people who I DON'T end up shooting for, or try to reneg on payment who I won't work for again.

This is about as UNvague of a thread as I've encountered 'round these parts. If you are any kind of player in your region, I would think people would figure out who you are.

That region is DC. I'm hardly a "player" there, or here. I'm fresh out of college. Even if they, for some reason, were trolling the DVX forum down to the nitty gritty, that doesn't explain any of this.

 

[Gary Huff]

Word of mouth goes so far it is not even funny. I NEVER realized how far it goes until I go out around the state of NC and people know who I am and I've NEVER talked with them before. It's scary.

That's true, but you could get badmouthed for any reason, true or not, and if it comes from someone who has zero respect in the production community, is it really that damaging to your reputation?

 

[Barry_Green]

About not having a contract ... might want to review this...

 

[pulp]

About not having a contract ... might want to review this...

Yes, I'm well aware of this, as well as a written contract, which is why I was willing to take the job: the original amount she specified per hour. If she got shady on payment (which was, oddly enough, the only thing she didn't get weird about, unless this check bounces), I had it in writing.

The other two days of shooting in question weren't locked down. She wasn't sure if the client wanted her to shoot them or not, and I have that in writing, as well.

 

[Scott F]

people know who I am and I've NEVER talked with them before. It's scary.

You're damn right we know who you are…..you're Grime Pooch! :grin::grin::grin::grin:

 

[Rick Burnett]

You're damn right we know who you are…..you're Grime Pooch! :grin::grin::grin::grin:

Hahaha! See!

People can go around saying whatever they want about you, that is true, but have you ever been in a situation where you mention a name to different people in different states, and the first response is "Yeah....I know them" in a not good tone. You cannot protect your image from everyone, but you can sure do your best to try and protect your name through actions as much as you can. The more your name gets thrown around negatively, the more it gets propagated in these small circles. And they are small. Why risk it? My work speaks for itself, and not just through content, or quality, but in ethics. When I promise to do something, it happens. When I work for someone, I respect their position and even if it ends up being the WORST JOB EVER, I work hard to part ways as amicable as possible. I just don't do work for them in the future, and I don't consult with their clients. Period. I think it's negative that the client wants to undercut the producer. You have no way of knowing if the client isn't playing both sides to try and get something else they want by pitting you and the producer against each other. I wouldn't want to be involved in any of that. One never knows, which is why burning bridges is ALWAYS a dangerous proposition.

 

[Scott F]

Uh, I'm sorry, but no. I can call BS on this immediately

Now hold on. Is what I'm saying crazy? Or is it so sane that it's blowing your mind?

Aren't you familiar with a little movie called Tron? If people are able to transport themselves into a computer world and wage wars with Programs and the MCP, you can bet your deadly discs someone is able to hack your information off a message board.

Here, let me give it a try.

-Your name is Jeremiah Phlug and you live in Chevy Chase, MD
-The lady with the living room office is Julia Rap and her flim-flam company is called "It's a Rap Productions, LLC"
-The client is the McGuinness Catheter Company

Now how far off am I? rogar-Evil(DBG):

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

Maybe they read this thread or some of your others? I'm only half kidding here, you do air a lot of your dirty laundry online. Permanent record, my friend.

This is why I don't have facebook.

 

[Rick Burnett]

This is why I don't have facebook.

I use facebook for networking constantly and think it is AMAZING for that. I have a rule that I don't say negative things in my facebook about ANY work I do for people, ever. And honestly, if I say something that offends a potential client being myself, then that is fine by me. I'd rather not work with them. Better to find out who I am ahead of time and not have an uncomfortable moment working together!

 

[pulp]

-Your name is Jeremiah Phlug and you live in Chevy Chase, MD
-The lady with the living room office is Julia Rap and her flim-flam company is called "It's a Rap Productions, LLC"
-The client is the McGuinness Catheter Company

Now how far off am I? rogar-Evil(DBG):

You got the right coast, three letters of the first name right, and the first letter of the woman's name right. Nice try, though.

Also, you're suggesting the information in the opposite direction. You're saying someone could find my information based on my posts here. That's probably fairly true. However, the likelihood of this woman, who doesn't seem the most computer literate, just happening upon these posts and then realizing the story is about her... Seems about as likely as me finding my own ex-girlfriend's nudes on the internet at random. Wait... that might have happened.

 

[pulp]

I use facebook for networking constantly and think it is AMAZING for that. I have a rule that I don't say negative things in my facebook about ANY work I do for people, ever. And honestly, if I say something that offends a potential client being myself, then that is fine by me. I'd rather not work with them. Better to find out who I am ahead of time and not have an uncomfortable moment working together!

I never add clients on Facebook, and all of my pictures and content is private. While it's probably possible for someone to get past that, aside from posting the link to my blog (which is primarily about people I don't end up shooting with or won't shoot with again) and such specific statuses as "well, (vigorous sex act) today right in it's (pack animal)," I don't think there's much they'd be offended by.

 

[Viddovation]

I never add clients on Facebook, and all of my pictures and content is private. While it's probably possible for someone to get past that, aside from posting the link to my blog (which is primarily about people I don't end up shooting with or won't shoot with again) and such specific statuses as "well, (vigorous sex act) today right in it's (pack animal)," I don't think there's much they'd be offended by.

The simple fallacy here is you're saying "I didn't tell them personally, so how could they possibly know?" Reread this thread. There are six pages of people warning you that in practice it's very easy for people whom you told *nothing* to share information with one another behind your back. Six pages of people reminding you that it's a very small world out there, and the degrees of separation between you, your clients, Kevin Bacon, and the rest of the video production community are far less than you're imagining.

You're stuck asking the wrong question "Who talked behind my back?" isn't as important as "What are the best practices I can follow to build trusting long term relationships with my clients?"


PS: Maybe this woman didn't find this board. Maybe someone on this board found/knew her. But really, if you don't ever air dirty laundry, these things rarely come up.

 

[pulp]

PS: Maybe this woman didn't find this board. Maybe someone on this board found/knew her. But really, if you don't ever air dirty laundry, these things rarely come up.

Do you honestly believe this woman found this damn forum? You honestly can be convinced that someone, anyone saw this information here, full of vagueties and non-descriptions, and tracked that woman, and linked them? Jesus. What's the thing about hitting a bullet with another bullet while blindfolded and riding a horse? Again, we're talking about a person with a presumably single-digit client base, 4 videographers in her contacts (6 if you include us), and an office/dining room?

PS. It's 7am and I'm struggling to get back to sleep because she just called me to ask if I had heard from the client and if he still wanted us to do the shoot. She's very desperate for this client, and jumping back and forth between blaming us for his disinterest in working with her and wanting us to be on board. Seriously, if he DID call us and not her, does she believe he'd still want her to manage the shoot? After all those accusations, she calls at 7am to see if we've heard from him? Something is seriously off here.

PSS. She called again. The client was in an accident, which is why he hasn't responded to her. I guess that'll calm her freaking out for now?

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

Back to the original question. Is it okay to have a client going directly to you? Well it's up to the client. I've learned during the years that this happen all the time and what it really tells is the client doesn't need the middle hand. Sure if the middle hand is an important client of yours you can let them know their client wants to work directly with you.

 

[simonpwood]

These situations always go sour.

If a client starts asking you if you will cut out the middleman its always best to say no, stick to your guns, and deflect any other approaches on the subject. You ought to give your company a heads-up that the customer was asking to cut them out (so they know that there is a problem and can work on resolving the issue with the client).

For years I worked in a the safari / lodge business, and a lot of our customers were brought to us through agents. Many times the agents would send us representatives from smaller companies based abroad who had no actual resources on the ground. Some of them would try to cut out the middlemen once they had been introduced. So we are left with the choice of taking direct bookings from a small operator (who would bring in a few groups a year) or remain loyal to the agents who provide most of our business the whole year round. No contest. Once you start undermining and undercutting in any business you stand to lose your reputation.

Now, it would appear that the lady accused you of a number of things (essentially that you had undermined her operation, said she was amateur or whatever, she was charging too much and taking all the profit, she had no equipment, and that you had tried to steal her customer). You had been discussing those very things here on these boards, so clearly you had been thinking about it.

Is it not likely that you might have bad mouthed her a little bit when the customer talked to you about cutting her out? Perhaps you and your partner may have hinted at some of those things to him (and he may have relayed this back to her, as a reason to stop using her services)?

Anyway, all the problems would have been avoided if you had deflected his questions outright, and made it clear that you have an obligation to your employer (and believe me, most people will respect you for that even if its not the answer they wanted to hear).