With update from AVCHD to XAVC-S

B

benn

Well-known member
Do you think its possible to update the FS700 with an XAVC (s) codec by Sony? Would Sony do it? Since I work with the A7s and the XAVC - s codec I see thats the better one and, whats very important, Resolve 11 does not take AVCHD files

Benn
 
this question is actually coming up 3 times a day.

No. I dont think so. Sony will present sooner or later a successor of the FS700 and this codec will be a sales pitch
 
3 times the day? Ups...but when the RX10 gets it now via FW, why not the FS700? I would pay for it as I paid the 4K update.
Benn
 
the RX10 is in the market for less than a year. Adding the codec makes sense to keep the sales up.

I cannot imagine which features Sony will add to the successor of the FS700 that
won't cannibalize the F5 except XVAC-S codec. Let's wait for the IBC.
 
The only reason I could see sony doing that is that if they release an FS100 successor that is too good and close to what the FS700 does and they want to keep the FS700 alive a bit longer until it's own successor is released.
The 7Q has given the FS700 prolonged life for sure... But once new models of the FS100, C100 etc start coming out if will be an endangered animal.

Could also be that XAVC needs something processor specific that's not on the FS700's older processor even though it should be plenty powerful.

Either way. They've promised a firmware update to rectify the issues with lenses such as the 18-105. But I don't think we'll get much more than that.
 
Well, looking at the camera comparison from the polish team there isnt that much difference between the 80.000 dollar cameras and the 15.000 dollar cameras anymore.

What features could kill off the FS700 7Q solution? Better ergonomics? I wouldnt dump my camera on the used market just for that. Better internal codec? Sure, but i still would not dump my camera. 600 fps HD? Sure, but i STILL wont dump my camera. That one time i need that i can rent a better camera. Thats cheaper than swapping it out.
 
What features could kill off the FS700 7Q solution?
XAVC or proRes 4k
10 bit or greater
Global Shutter
>14 stop DR
$10k price
 
jshbckr said:
So... cheaper than the F5 but with the global shutter and 4K recorder of the even-more-expensive F55? I don't think that's very likely.
Click to expand...

That's what I would want...not what I expect.

Lack of OLPF, heavily compressed internal codec, and lower DR would protect the F55's market I would think.

What do you think the replacement for FS700 would have?
 
seanmc said:
That's what I would want...not what I expect.

Lack of OLPF, heavily compressed internal codec, and lower DR would protect the F55's market I would think.

What do you think the replacement for FS700 would have?
Click to expand...
Good point on "heavily compressed", I didn't think about the actual codec and missed that someone mentioned the XAVC-S. I don't think they would really increase the dynamic range or add global shutter.

I think it would possibly have compressed 4K, the SDI output would be bumped up to 10-bit, and they would possibly boost the buffer size/speed to accommodate a short burst a 4K120 to the SD card while also increasing the duration of a buffered 240fps mode to 18sec (maybe 25+sec?).

This would let them stand up against the cheaper 4K cams coming out while encouraging people to still use the 7Q or R5 if they need RAW, yet they still stay out of F5/F55 territory.

The FS700 did a strange thing by having that 240fps gimmick to sell it. I wonder if they'd have a new gimmick up their sleeve or just an upgrade to reinforce the FS700's "main selling point".

I'm also still surprised by how many people shoot straight to SD card still... I've been so absorbed in the 7Q-world and all the talk/popularity regarding it that I've forgotten that tons of people shooting with the FS700 don't use the 7Q or any other external recorder, for that matter. To a similar point, those people love the camera but many don't utilize the SDI out for recording, they aren't worried about an extra stop of dynamic range, and they aren't worried about a global shutter. They like the frame rates, the XLR inputs, and built-in ND. And that it is sharper and shoots longer than a DSLR.

Many of us on DVXuser would probably be considered "power-users" by Sony. Even though many pros use the FS700, I'd wager that a vast majority of FS700 shooters aren't talking on a message board about the dynamic range or bit-depth of their codec.

They are shooting corporate videos, slomo booths, action sports, indie shorts, concerts, music videos, documentaries, weddings... A wide, wide range of subjects/formats with different needs. And they may have gotten the FS700 for different reasons, but most likely it was because of the features on the camera, not necessarily the quality of those features. Notice that the FS700 defies nearly everything that makes the BlackMagic cameras sellable. It doesn't shoot RAW... but it has XLR inputs. It doesn't shoot ProRes... but it has built-in ND filters. It doesn't have global shutter... but it has 240fps! With the FS700, it's not about doing anything better than the other cameras, it's about doing something they can't do at all.

So while I'd certainly like to see a bump up in quality of the features that already exist on the camera, I have a feeling that those improvements would be lost on their core market.
 
jshbckr said:
I'm also still surprised by how many people shoot straight to SD card still... I've been so absorbed in the 7Q-world and all the talk/popularity regarding it that I've forgotten that tons of people shooting with the FS700 don't use the 7Q or any other external recorder, for that matter. To a similar point, those people love the camera but many don't utilize the SDI out for recording, they aren't worried about an extra stop of dynamic range, and they aren't worried about a global shutter. They like the frame rates, the XLR inputs, and built-in ND. And that it is sharper and shoots longer than a DSLR.

Many of us on DVXuser would probably be considered "power-users" by Sony. Even though many pros use the FS700, I'd wager that a vast majority of FS700 shooters aren't talking on a message board about the dynamic range or bit-depth of their codec.

They are shooting corporate videos, slomo booths, action sports, indie shorts, concerts, music videos, documentaries, weddings... A wide, wide range of subjects/formats with different needs. And they may have gotten the FS700 for different reasons, but most likely it was because of the features on the camera, not necessarily the quality of those features. Notice that the FS700 defies nearly everything that makes the BlackMagic cameras sellable. It doesn't shoot RAW... but it has XLR inputs. It doesn't shoot ProRes... but it has built-in ND filters. It doesn't have global shutter... but it has 240fps! With the FS700, it's not about doing anything better than the other cameras, it's about doing something they can't do at all.

So while I'd certainly like to see a bump up in quality of the features that already exist on the camera, I have a feeling that those improvements would be lost on their core market.
Click to expand...

I think you are onto something. You described me perfectly....shooting straight to card,
very wide range of work.......I like the FS700 because of its wide range of features that let
me do all kinds of things.....timelapse with 'smeary' shutter, high frame rates, shallow
depth of field, XLR inputs, built in nd, use any lens around...it just does a TON of different
stuff. It might not be the best at any particular feature, but it's the only camera with
all these features under 10 grand....has autofocus, servo zoom, touch to focus, settable
rack focus, even some cheesy (but sometimes useful) things like face detection autofocus
and ability to snap 8 MP stills! Such a 'Swiss army knife', can be very useful to a
'one man video company' who lives in an rural area with no access to rental houses.
 
Im excited to see what the 200 fps image quality will be like.

Its quite gimped on the current FS700, so i expect the line skipping and aliasing to be less severe on the next model. Maybe even way better looking 400 fps.
 
alaskacameradude said:
I think you are onto something. You described me perfectly....shooting straight to card,
very wide range of work.......I like the FS700 because of its wide range of features that let
me do all kinds of things.....timelapse with 'smeary' shutter, high frame rates, shallow
depth of field, XLR inputs, built in nd, use any lens around...it just does a TON of different
stuff. It might not be the best at any particular feature, but it's the only camera with
all these features under 10 grand....has autofocus, servo zoom, touch to focus, settable
rack focus, even some cheesy (but sometimes useful) things like face detection autofocus
and ability to snap 8 MP stills! Such a 'Swiss army knife', can be very useful to a
'one man video company' who lives in an rural area with no access to rental houses.
Click to expand...
Totally. And there is nothing wrong with that. I've called the FS700 a swiss army knife before, too. It's hard for me to consider other cameras when this one offers so much bang for the buck (and without the sacrifices you have to make going with a DSLR-style camera). And Sony knows that's who is the target market for this range of camera.
 
jshbckr said:
They are shooting corporate videos, slomo booths, action sports, indie shorts, concerts, music videos, documentaries, weddings... A wide, wide range of subjects/formats with different needs. And they may have gotten the FS700 for different reasons, but most likely it was because of the features on the camera, not necessarily the quality of those features. Notice that the FS700 defies nearly everything that makes the BlackMagic cameras sellable. It doesn't shoot RAW... but it has XLR inputs. It doesn't shoot ProRes... but it has built-in ND filters. It doesn't have global shutter... but it has 240fps! With the FS700, it's not about doing anything better than the other cameras, it's about doing something they can't do at all..
Click to expand...

Good description! I was hesitating wether build in ND Filters will justify 3K more compared to a FS100 - yes they paid off very quick. Faster than I imagined.
 
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